Rocketiii,

Let me preface that I'm not arguing for any SLI position simply because I'm just a line puke and well, my opinion is worth nothing to our negotiators. No UAL pilot, I mean none, have said because we parked the 300's, our SLI position has been increased. The premise regarding the wide body to narrow body pilot ratio at UAL is flawed. Let's say for example UAL has two 400s and two 300's. The 400 has 20 pilots and so does the 300. The top 20 pilots are on the 400 and the bottom 20 are slinging it out on the guppy but waiting for their god given right to fly the 400. Then Fletcher Tilton parks one guppy. Nothing has changed for the 10 guppy guys, or gals left? They are still in the same progress line for the 400. Just because we have a larger percentage of wide bodies to narrow doesn't mean the narrow body folks are going to get there quicker because fletcher parked a guppy. Therefore, the supposed wide/narrow ratio body argument on the current UAL property is flawed, and is probably why I have never heard that. There might be other opinions here at UAL but, Jesus knows I'm not making an argument for or against any.

Regarding the lowering of your average wage increase and buying scope, I understand your concern. All I can say is that most of the pilots I'm flying with aren't in the mood for buying anything. Remember we lost almost 50%, plus everything else. That my friend, is a lot of average to recover. We intend to get what is due to us and you.

Best of luck to both of us and I do look forward to our future.

Fritz

 

This discussion is semi-off topic per the CAL 170 Thread/Sermon started by
"Rev" Baron.....but I have to touch on what you said JD.

Agreed....
At times within certain aspects, ALPA's game plan is tired/showing it's age just as the playbook that the Companys dusts off every time they pull it off the shelf to do battle. Like you I share your ankst/frustration on the predictability of tactics/results that often come about between ALPA & the company when dealing with Mgt v Labor relations.

However, saying that ALPA has ZERO leverage in this merger.....We'll I find that to be about as dramatic as CA Baron is at times in some of his statements/facts that he's laid out above. When you cite Judge Lefkow's ruling back in late 2008 concerning the UAL Pilot Group's actions, how was that time/situation anything in parallel to what we having going on now in the Merger and the Joint Pilot Group's Neg a JCBA?? United Airlines Pilots Union and strike, court decision on work to rule strike by pilots | DWS Aviation

Back then, UAL-ALPA had what leverage against Glenn Tiliton?.....That group was (still is) working under at BK CBA, loosing much of it's mainline domestic flying, 1100+ Pilots (at that time) on the street with no 'real trump card' to lay on the table in which to threaten "Glenn & Co.'s" Apple Cart. At that time, was Mediation---> Arbitration something that the company saw as being a threat looming on the horizon?? Not hardly. Back in 2008 (or earlier), what urgency did the Company/Board have in which to obtain at new CBA for your Pilot group?? NONE.....they had it all.....Beaten down Pilot Group as a bi-product of the BK CBA....outsourced an 'entire fleet' to cut rate labor.....and had already rided the Pilot Group of it's Company Paid/Funded Pension.....they (Tilton) clearly had the upper hand with no threat/clear leverage from UAL ALPA.

At least 'today' CAL/UAL ALPA have come together by way of a solid Transition Agreement in which they will JOINTLY do business in tandem as WE deal with the NEW Company while making in-roads towards our JCBA. It's establishment has beaten the company to the punch of "Whip-Saw" (DON'T think this is huge?? Just look at the compeating FA Groups within our new company). The NEW Company NEEDS the Pilot's JCBA to be able to deliver ANY type of economic numbers/results that it's 'sold' to the Government, Wall Street, and it's investors. Will the road we travel be tried and easy?? Not a chance......but one in which we will have much more than ZERO leverage.

Contrasting how things were 'back then' (as your cited above), to how the are now, I would tend to see differently that ALPA has more than ZERO Leverage in this deal.....Can it be squandered away?? Absolutely!! Do I think it will be?? Highly doubt it. There are too many check-n-balances (DUAL/independent MEC's over-seeing it's process, two different/but formable Pilot Groups that understand just want a top line CBA looks like, and enough guys/gals between the two companies that are tired of taking it in the shorts for the last 9 yrs) in place to just watch idly as this opportunity rolls down the drain.

I've been in this business long enough to know what trials/tribulations that are entailed in a CBA fight. I am NOT being a Kool-Aid drinker of any kind in which the roses are fragrant/'purdy'.....just know enough that this specific opportunity we have now is not your ordinary Neg.....it's one that we can keenly capitalize on as a group as we go forward together.

If you believe you have ZERO Leverage......your probably going to act, negotiate, and get results that follow in tow.

 

What was done to TWA is/was NOT laughable in any way. It was horrible...AND it was not done to them by AMR, it was done to them by ALPA. If you don't know/understand that, then you are an uninformed dolt. I hope you just inadvertantly mis-spoke, because I do not use that kind of language lightly.

Sincerely,

JD

 

Intrepid,

Thanks for the link to Jayson. Unfortunately like most ALPA guys I have known over years he didn't respond. I sent him questions regarding the update and so far he has chosen not to reply. Not surprised that he has chosen not to respond. It is far too typical of the average union blowhard.

The big frustration I have is that you, myself and the others are probably the ones that have realistic ideas. The ALPA clowns all fancy themselves as some type of geniuess and want to prove how wonderful they are even if it is to the detriment of the pilot group. Over the years I have looked at most of our ALPA leaders as those that weren't good enough to make it in the ranks of management. They all don't want to fly and want to presume they have a special skill set to be a union "manager". They live for trip drops, expense accounts and the thought that they are somehow respected. Some of the worst pilots I have ever flown with were ALPA reps.

While some see it as kumbaya it will be up to the rest of us to see through the ALPA BS and get along. I still haven't figured out why I have to pay an assessment to protect me in an ALPA to ALPA merger. Isn't that something ALPA sells to prospective carriers they are trying to woo, merger protection? They can not even trust themselves to run a merger between two represented pilot groups! That should be a huge warning sign to their incompetence.

Good luck to us all.

L

 

Laughable as in beyond the pale of reason. Sounds like we have another scab in the making eh?

Sincerely,

Fritz

 

Why would a Continental EWR Rep respond to an email from you? Just curious. Also, what did you ask him? Or did you just blast off some dribble at him? Im not a big fan of JB, but I dont knock him for communicating with his constituents and hitting hot buttons that many have. I do not approve of his attack of other reps. But I have no problem with him listing the facts that I am sure are being thrown around in SLI meetings at this time. Remember, the SLI is happening now. Whatever doesnt get agreed upon will go to a third party. So I bet there is a bunch of bad blood in the heat of that battle. As was stated earlier, it is reported that huge egos on both sides about the historical importance or grandeur of each airline are present.

 

This just in:

e. The merger representatives shall carefully weigh all the equities inherent in their merger situation. In joint session, the merger representatives should attempt to match

• Engine thrust
• USA Today ranking
• non-stops from NEW YORK

 

Touche!!
NOW, that's some funny shiz!!

 

You forgot "nicest paintjob"........thanks for bringing some humor to this thread!

 

Did you get the answers given yet? Remember next time to "ask" when in unfamiliar territory...