UAL MEC message - 11/1/10
11-02-2010 | 11:08 AM
#72
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Joined: Feb 2010
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Hold on there hoss.... I wouldn't get too righteous about "why can't you get your people going in the same direction". You might want to re-read your magenta line. Doesn't sound like the CAL MEC is exactly unified right now either.
Second, too late. Skywest just opened a 70 seat RJ Houston base. Oh, and UAL just replaced a bunch of 70 seaters in SEA. The shift has begun, and you guys are definitely on the losing end of the flow of 70 seaters. If you guys are smart over there, you'll want what we want. GET A NEW CONTRACT DONE. Get some good raises, improvements in QOL and SCOPE and do it soon.
I'm sick of the he said/she said. Every email, magenta line, and update that comes out like that hurts us ALL in the long run because it takes away from what should be our REAL focus, being unified. BOTH sides are guilty.
Second, too late. Skywest just opened a 70 seat RJ Houston base. Oh, and UAL just replaced a bunch of 70 seaters in SEA. The shift has begun, and you guys are definitely on the losing end of the flow of 70 seaters. If you guys are smart over there, you'll want what we want. GET A NEW CONTRACT DONE. Get some good raises, improvements in QOL and SCOPE and do it soon.
I'm sick of the he said/she said. Every email, magenta line, and update that comes out like that hurts us ALL in the long run because it takes away from what should be our REAL focus, being unified. BOTH sides are guilty.
I think people are oversimplifying the problem here on this forum also. Its not just a matter of pay and fences, or what was concessionary and what isnt. We have no look into what the proposal is, no matter what secret experts here like to spout. There is much more to it and Im sure the room of negotiators and lawyers that have devoted their lives to this type of work know what they are doing. There is an obvious reason why the two sides arent in agreement. One side or the other will have a windfall until they split the baby in half. And that will happen. The problem is the public viewing of the baby being severed. Just do it.
11-02-2010 | 11:11 AM
#73
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 111
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11-02-2010 | 11:19 AM
#74
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Joined: Mar 2006
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I agree with much of what you wrote. Not trying to be righteous though. I understand our union mess. I also understand that our MEC has full confidence in our negotiating committee. The pi$$ing contests between the LEC reps is just noise. I guarantee that everyone is probably within 2% of complete agreement on most issues. Its that 2% they differ on that has caused problems and the ridiculous clash of personalities (odd personalities, btw) has made it much more dramatic than need be. But it blows my mind that Ms Wendy would publicly trash the CAL mec for holding up the process when her own appointed members of the JNC seemed to think the economic proposal was ok. Kind of picking and choosing the facts, imho.
I think people are oversimplifying the problem here on this forum also. Its not just a matter of pay and fences, or what was concessionary and what isnt. We have no look into what the proposal is, no matter what secret experts here like to spout. There is much more to it and Im sure the room of negotiators and lawyers that have devoted their lives to this type of work know what they are doing. There is an obvious reason why the two sides arent in agreement. One side or the other will have a windfall until they split the baby in half. And that will happen. The problem is the public viewing of the baby being severed. Just do it.
I think people are oversimplifying the problem here on this forum also. Its not just a matter of pay and fences, or what was concessionary and what isnt. We have no look into what the proposal is, no matter what secret experts here like to spout. There is much more to it and Im sure the room of negotiators and lawyers that have devoted their lives to this type of work know what they are doing. There is an obvious reason why the two sides arent in agreement. One side or the other will have a windfall until they split the baby in half. And that will happen. The problem is the public viewing of the baby being severed. Just do it.
11-02-2010 | 11:51 AM
#76
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 239
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I posted this on the other thread but I'll repeat it here.
From Jay's letter:
"The problem rests solely with the UAL MEC and their insistence that the compensation proposal enhance their SLI argument.
To further complicate matters, the UAL MEC has proposed a resolution to the ALPA Executive Council suggesting that the Council mandate that the JCBA cannot be used in the SLI arbitration."
If compensation proposal=JCBA and SLI argument=SLI arbitration then these two statements completely contradict each other. If UAL MEC wants a resolution that the JCBA (400 pay banding) will not affect the SLI then its not about seniority..right?
Am I missing something?
From Jay's letter:
"The problem rests solely with the UAL MEC and their insistence that the compensation proposal enhance their SLI argument.
To further complicate matters, the UAL MEC has proposed a resolution to the ALPA Executive Council suggesting that the Council mandate that the JCBA cannot be used in the SLI arbitration."
If compensation proposal=JCBA and SLI argument=SLI arbitration then these two statements completely contradict each other. If UAL MEC wants a resolution that the JCBA (400 pay banding) will not affect the SLI then its not about seniority..right?
Am I missing something?
11-02-2010 | 01:58 PM
#77
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Joined: Jan 2007
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She didn't attack in public. She fulfilled her duties as the UAL Master Chairman and communicated the current JCBA situation to her pilot constituents. The fact that it was posted here is out of her hands. And even though she may be aware that her messages will be leaked, that wouldn't change the tone or content of her communications to the pilots that she represents.
You may not like the message, but don't make it out to be any more than it is.
Hog
You may not like the message, but don't make it out to be any more than it is.
Hog
11-02-2010 | 02:02 PM
#78
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 234
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It's not about 'attack and conquer' at all. The reason she went public was frusration with a certain loud-mouthed LEC rep in EWR going public first. Once he published that Magenta Line, an easy solution was lost because he publicly called out the UAL MEC. They couldn't compromise without losing face. If he had acted like a grownup maybe an amicable settlement could have been quietly reached and we pilots would have been none the wiser. HE undermined the process and hurt all of us.
If you have a problem with someone negotiating in public, call that rep.
Now this is all one big public soap opera. I am going to get some popcorn and settle in for the (probably lengthy) show.
If you have a problem with someone negotiating in public, call that rep.
Now this is all one big public soap opera. I am going to get some popcorn and settle in for the (probably lengthy) show.
I didn't say the Magenta line was right. As a matter of fact I have thrown egg at that rep since the BOD in FLL. What I said was spot on about negotiating in public. Not that this is negotiating
I have news for you and leadership......the right thing to do as a leader isn't exactly what you as a leader want to do.
She did the WRONG thing. Period dot..Venting your frustration as the MEC chair publicly is WRONG! MGT will eat this alive. They are not stupid.
11-02-2010 | 02:04 PM
#79
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 234
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Guess what, I at one time worked at CAL and remember when some of my fellow pilots wanted to burn down the place there also. So what?
P.S. FYI It was a good decision to go to UAL looking back. I'm guessing you've only been there since Bethune was running the show , he came after I left and from what I'm told really turned it around. It wasn't a good place to work prior to that.
P.S. FYI It was a good decision to go to UAL looking back. I'm guessing you've only been there since Bethune was running the show , he came after I left and from what I'm told really turned it around. It wasn't a good place to work prior to that.
CAL wasn't my first choice of airlines. Now it is. I wasn't there under Bethune. 2005 Hire. I was lucky to be outside the frag pattern.
11-02-2010 | 02:05 PM
#80
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
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Quite frankly I'm surprised it took this long to disagree about something. The CAL MEC will always try and do what is best for their Pilot group and I fully expect the UAL MEC to do the same. Everyone's on here pining about how smooth the DAL/NWA thing went but I remember Moak pulling some fast ones that the NWA guys were furious about.
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