Uh Oh, there you go introducing reasoned analysis into the mix.

 

What is UCal going to do if the UAL pilots who went to CAL then jump ship and come back to the UAL side. It would be interesting to see all of them come back and leave UCAL high and dry. This assumes that no JCBA and SLI before 12/12

 

IMHO, you won't see that. If more pilots are needed, then they will just "hire" on the "Continental side", and re-adjust the flying. Like what US Airways is doing. Hiring for the East side, not the West...
Unfortunately, from the other posts on other threads, and from my point of view as a furloughee, it is the same mess, if not worse...

All the complaining about the profit sharing (which BTW, some of the furloughed, now CAL "new hire pilots" will get) is useless. It's done, let focus the anger, and research, and complaining on getting a single list and a new contract a return the pilots to "their rightful seats" in the cockpits! (Like the VARS use to say)

 

All the complaining about the profit sharing (which BTW, some of the furloughed, now CAL "new hire pilots" will get) is useless. It's done, let focus the anger, and research, and complaining on getting a single list and a new contract a return the pilots to "their rightful seats" in the cockpits! (Like the VARS use to say)[/QUOTE]

You STILL don't get it. We are not complaining about the CAL guys getting profit sharing. We are complaining about the back door way that he went about obtaining it. We are SUPPOSED to be working towards the common goal of a JCBA, not meeting privately with the company and working deals on the side.

Jay and his methods are a problem. If there are many more like you that don't see his methods as being a hindrance to a JCBA and a harmonious relationship between the two pilot groups....I fear that we are headed down the same path
as the US Airways folks. Is that really what we want?

You don't want us to complain? When do we start? After he does it again 3 or 4 times?

 

You STILL don't get it. We are not complaining about the CAL guys getting profit sharing. We are complaining about the back door way that he went about obtaining it. We are SUPPOSED to be working towards the common goal of a JCBA, not meeting privately with the company and working deals on the side.

Jay and his methods are a problem. If there are many more like you that don't see his methods as being a hindrance to a JCBA and a harmonious relationship between the two pilot groups....I fear that we are headed down the same path
as the US Airways folks. Is that really what we want?

You don't want us to complain? When do we start? After he does it again 3 or 4 times?[/QUOTE]


What I'm wondering is why ALPA National (Lee Moak) is not getting involved. They have not provided any unity amongst airline pilots of the organization as a whole. I would say they are even damaging unity by supporting both regional and mainline, essentially playing both sides of the fence.

It would seem that part of the point of being an ALPA airline is to benefit from the cooperation of a group of pilots from various airlines moving in the same direction. Currently all ALPA is doing is herding cats which produces no results and often destroys things.

Unless both LUAL and LCAL (UNICON) pilots and ALPA reps provide an unwavering united front to management we are doomed. I would expect ALPA National to knock heads together, as needed, to unite the two "ALPA" memberships to act as one.

So simple question, where is ALPA National and why do they take 2% with the kind of results we have had over the past decade?

 

Thanks for the kind words.

Air transportation and piloting are interests of mine both professionally and personally from having performed legal work in the industry.

On this particular board I'm truly surprised about what appears to be economic naivete when it comes to the piloting profession and industry in general. I guess I thought there might be a little more reasoned analysis and less "longing for the old days" as a simple way of describing the regulated environment of many years ago.

In an industry that is essentially unregulated economically, competition and markets determine everything. Without a hard shortage of labor, "longing for the old days" won't get much traction.

Hope to look in now and then.

Thanks.

 

Most of us were hired after 1978, so "longing for the old days" isn't in the mix.

If the airline industry was truly unregulated economically you might have a point. But with the RLA written to avoid work stoppages (favoring the airlines in contract negotiations), we are definitely regulated in our ability to pressure the airlines into negotiating in good faith. So they don't, and the process drags on for years while the companies (and executives) pocket the money they should have been paying the employees in increased wages and benefits.

Then there's the abuse of the CH 11 Bankruptcy process. See the PBS Frontline special on the UAL BK: news + public affairs player: video. The lead BK counsel was billing UAL $800/hour and Tilton had no problem paying that. From his perspective, the result was worth every penny.

It would be interesting to see the reaction from the legal profession if the govt decided to regulate legal fees. Since most of the pols are attorneys, we know that will never happen. From a financial perspective, you picked the right career.

 

Don't put words in my mouth. Never said I "don't see his methods as being a hindrance." Just saying sick of seeing all the posts here about it. Go talk to the LEC, MEC, NATIONAL. Call meetings and call him out on it. I unfortunately can't from here on the street.

 

I do go to meetings. We (UAL) have called him on it. Unfortunately, it seems as though he has gotten a pass from the CAL side.

Both Pierce and Hepner met with Moak today, I believe.

 

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