It is common knowledge from every nook and cranny that UAL and our "co workers" at the BOD are dragging their feet. My point is, if we are going to have a joint cba, their needs to be a joint aproach.

Do you not agree with that?

What I see are 2 different teams playing against each other for the same trophy.

No way is this going to get done in a JCBA manner. No way.

 

Actually there are times when he is excluded and intentionally ignored.

It is what it is. Having a seat is great, but the UAL BOD is at war against the pilots and they won't tell him everything. He will (and does) need to read between the lines and see what they are NOT saying to figure out what they ARE saying.

UAL management is waiting for a more friendly NLRB and DoL before proceeding down this path. That has been known since Obama's election.

The merger is only about tearing up the scope clause and they don't mind waiting 4 years to do it.

 

[QUOTE=AxlF16;1171326]I actually know who they contract out much of their legal work to. So, yes they do have some smart legal people. It is not really an airline....it is a legal firm, with other legal firms on retainer, with an all encompasing HR department that just has a few airplanes at their dispossal.

yes it was an irritant, as was another grievance that was lost by management. Management likely wanted to push those off the books and it was merely a way for them to appear to save face.

The 40 million dollar price tag is a pipe dream. Just look at the age 65 cascading - domino effect to figure out that Nicoli (and any other arbitrator) punted on that. It was over 20 million in just direct costs due to age 65 if we had all gotten our proper seniority. Just think of the restored seniority, vacation, monthly bidding rights, perm bidding rights, etc. Read his opinion before you spout off like you know it for a fact..... What an arbitrator might do and will do are 2 different things........

 

Those were all excellent points. I don't want to quote the whole thing.

I would say this however. I think we are in "joint" JCBA discussions correct...

If we are in that enviornment, then we have both UAL and CAL guys staffing the NC...Correct. Do we not have both UAL and CAL guys staffing a joint Communications committee?? Just asking an obvious quesiton....

Both UAL and CAL MEC Chairman are defacto members of the JCBA NC right? Why is this so hard to get a joint message from the joint defacto members and their joint NC Chairs?

If this is how it is, then no way do we get a joint anything........

 

The first sentenance above is golden. It is an absolute truth sandwich. Everyone needs to embrace that to get over the jeaolousy and envy.

I would offer this bit of hope though. I feel it is faster for us all to get a JCBA with 2 seperate deals. It would be easier to get both MEC's to the table if both pilot groups weren't so far apart on major issues.

Why not go two seperate CBA's for a short term deal to bring each group up to relative pairity and then pursue a JCBA with both groups. It might be faster for the pilots and more efficient for ALPA National to pull off, and it might actually create some unity and some momentum to build on moving forward.

 

Who the hell are you?! Faster to get a JCBA with 2 separate deals?? Whatever trial balloon you're floating is going down like the Hindenburg.

Do you REALLY think the delay in getting a JCBA is caused by the UAL and CAL pilots being 'far apart' on issues??? Again...who the hell are you? I ask that question honestly. You suddenly pop up on the forum and post this kind of divisive nonsense and you expect to get taken seriously? I mean, come on, what the heck does 'relative parity' even mean?? And how would that be more efficient for ALPA National to 'pull off'?? And to top that off, you claim that it would create unity???!!!!

You've can't be for real.

 

Agree with gettingbumped's points also.

CAL guys please don't confuse our, ahem, critiques of JP as attacks on CAL line pilots. It stems from a desire for unity across the pilot ranks. I rate our last MEC a 0 out of 10 for effectiveness. The pilots here are demanding more action out of JH.

As far as the line pilots: I think we are all on the same page as far as a JCBA goes.

I understand that JPs loyalties are to who elected him, that's fine but, what's best for one side should be the best for all, contract wise.

In my experience on the line, the discussion is 99.99% contract vs. .01% seniority list, even though the junior half here are generally scared to death of it, and feel like our side is fighting an uphill battle.


So, can't we put that and whatever else on the shelf right now, and stand together on this issue?

 

If you find it divisive then you are wrong. I produly wear my ALPA pin every darn day. I am a realist.

Do you find it divisive that the UAL MEC is ape-bonkers over CAL pilots getting the profit sharing we deserve? Right.........

In reading the COM recently I am at a loss as to what UAL MEC is doing. They look like clowns. It looks like lone wolf MEC over there. So much for joint anything.

Sorry, but the truth is..........The UAL MEC screwed this joint thing up pretty bad.

I've been here for a long time, but I rarely post. The recent gong show at the UAL MEC has awakend me however. I am now in high prf and I am going back and re-reading all the two MEC's com for the last several years to figure out what they are saying and not saying.

I no longer care about a joint JCBA this year. I want to be made whole from the last 10 years of getting robbed by my management. I am sure you feel the same way. It the CBA says "joint" on it, or CAL, or UAL it matters not. We need to get this rolling in a productive way. It may be that we just need more time to figure out where each pilot group is and where they want to go before we get it all done.

This merger and the joint stuff that goes with it is a marriage. Why not wait for the formal marriage stuff (joint cba) and get some good deals in the mean time to tie us over? I think we just need more time to get on the same page at the MEC and NC levels............. Even Ray Charles can see that, and he is both blind and dead.

I said in the long run.

The short run is toast..... That's done. Too many bridges burned at the respective MEC's.

 

Actually, I'm starting to see some logic in "going it alone", without the CAL MEC. Negotiate a contract devoid of pay banding, decouple 777 and 747, set things to our advanatage when ISL goes to arbitrater. Have a nice day

 

Otto...

You are so far out in left field a ball could land in front of you and it would be a home run. Your posts reek of inexperience and fear and quite frankly if we go separate ways I guarantee you the game is over, there will be no merged seniority and the UCH will continue their growth of contract pilot work.

Now to answer your points:

1. "UAL MEC is ape-bonkers over CAL pilots getting the profit sharing we deserve? "
A. - They did not go "ape" over your PS deal. They filed a grievance because UCH distributed the PS to the UAL pilots in violation of the CBA which is in force. Fair or not the CAL pilots got PS in a deal outside of your CBA.

2. "The UAL MEC screwed this joint thing up pretty bad."
A. UAL and now UCH management screwed this place up. UAL pilots took major hits in retirement, pay, vacation, work rules and such to save this airline from liquidation over 10 years ago. Now Jeff says UAL pilots do not deserve a return for their investment and continually claims it would be unfair to the other employees.

3. "They look like clowns. It looks like lone wolf MEC over there. So much for joint anything."

A. The UAL MEC has continually, since the beginning of the merger, worked diligently with the CAL MEC. They have kept them informed and called for joint meetings and solidarity. Conversely the CAL MEC (EWR leading) turned the initial battle into positioning for ISL and has continued to walk out on and stone wall the UAL MEC. Additionally Jay Pierce is well know on the inside as being untrusted with any private direction. It seems the UCH management has always been informed of all joint MEC Chair discussions before the MEC members themselves.

Otto the short run is only toast if your MEC Chair chooses it to be! As I said in a previous post, if people like you decide to go separate ways and hurt a UAL pilot action rather than join in you are no brethren of ours.

Fly your plane, enjoy your seniority.