What is the remedy you seek in your grievance?

I wouldn't call it a financial windfall by any stretch.

As long as the remedy doesn't hurt the pilots on either side it may be a positive. Right now CAL pilots see it is a negative. That may be to the packaging and the timing of what we've heard about it.

This guy Smisek is pretty slick. He may have done it under the "guise" of something strange and you are probably right. If the line pilots at CAL understood the grievance the way you worded it here, that wouold go a long way to getting a better understanding of your position.

This is the first explanation of it that I have heard that makes sense. I honestly hope you win if nothing else just to demonstrate to slick smisek that he doesn't have everthing covered.

 

I can't beleive the ual guys would even consider going to battle with these guys.

 

Lets stop talking about how long we've been doing it. I think if I go to the simulator building again and hear a UAL guy say "we've been doing this since the wright brothers soloed" ....whatever. Don't insult us please by telling us how long you've been doing it. We've been there too. I respect your experience, but don't discount mine or assume I haven't been doing it as long as you have, or perhaps longer...........

You are wrong. JP has been doing his best to advance the JCBA. That's why he is not tossing hand grenades every week. If anything else, he has been more disciplined, more patient, more deliberate, and more measured than his counterpart, or his predecessor.

I think our COM discipline is vastly improved and that is likely due to the fact that JP has had to baby sit some inmature reps in the big bases at CAL. The entire MEC has had to re-think COM and likely compress 10 years of learning into about 4.

You are dead wrong. I am in it for the UAL pilots. Every one. But, I think the quickest way to get there is 2 seperate short term deals that deal with big issues for these two pilot groups. That may be the medicine we both need to progress as mature adults. I honestly see that as the quickest way to the long term JCBA we all seek.

It also brings more leverage. UAL MEC already has an injunction on it that I see in the COM messages. That would give CAL pilots more leverage in the respect that we are not as limited there. The great summer adventure is nearly here. UCH management has but one NC team. We could easily take our two MEC's and go after 2 CBA's and attack the problem in a pincer movement rather than a frontal assault. Don't you see the positives here?

 

T O R Q U E! Can I get a fist pound from ya' Brain Surgeon! A good friend of mine who is a Bus Capt in ORD once told me that he stopped listening to long winded 'going to battle lectures' from your type after being stupefied by the willingness to BOHICA in BK far too often.

 

To give you a very positive suggestion to keep the current JCBA train on the track...The only way I see this thing from de-railing is if both MEC's decide to meet 'jointly' when they have their respective MEC meetings to keep in place a common strategy and to adjust it as needed.

MEC meetings typically last a minimum of 3 days. Why not have joint MEC meetings in one building, and have seperate breakouts as needed to re-convene the individual MEC's to handle individual MEC business?

The geographic separation is making it hard to maintain the business relationship. Joint MEC meetings would do the following:

1. build mutual trust and understanding of issues gemane to the process
2. provide ability to come together to work out issues that seperate us
3. provide a spring board to build relationships that would strengthen both pilot groups.
4. provide a process to refine a common communications strategy.
5. provide an outlet so that both MEC Chairs can speak with a common voice to common issues (no more lone ranger stuff).
6. keep both MEC's informed of progress or lack there of and give both MEC's an opportunity to put their respective heads together collectively to implement a common solution for all.

We elect the MEC reps to do our business. If we respect the actual process and let our MEC reps do it, then the process will be preserved and the results will be respected and the pilots might actually understand it,and then buy-into it.

Absent this sort of working relationship....what are the options and what will the result be?

 

Brain surgeon, nope not here but thanks, long winded nope did not see that either. Like I said to go to battle with these guys nope sorry you are kidding your self, but hey run it by your bus captain friend I am sure he knows better brain surgeon.
If you think the cal guys will stand by you, your an idiot.

 

That approach only works if both MEC's are willing to work collaboratively and openly.

As I said earlier, your ALPA leaders sacrificed unity at the alter of SLI looong ago. Various leaders (famously JP & JB) made it perfectly clear that this is all about the ISL and that they were willing to delay the JCBA until we agreed to there terms.

It is impossible to work collaboratively and openly in such an environment. The seeds of mistrust are not even disguised anymore! Yet we still try...and the CAL MEC won't participate in the joint meetings. You should communicate this desire upwards through your union.

 

Claims that they are a waste of time and money...Hmmm. I'm starting to think that somebody may have alternate motivation here. Maybe a nice cushy senior VP job? LCAL guys WAKE UP!!

If Mr JP comes back with anything but support for the release you can be 100% sure that you are being duped by a management lackey.

 

AxlF16..
What has just transpired goes beyond mistrust... this move by the UAL MEC may actually delay any Joint Contract, and gives even more power back to the company (in my opinion).

I was not there 18 months ago when Jayson B made a somewhat inflammatory statement concerning PayBanding.. but were you? I have heard a few different stories concerning that, and not sure which one is true, but long story short, it hasn't and wasn't going to delay anything.
And even if it was going to be an issue.. one rep alone can not delay a JCBA. The JNC would probably not allow it, the NMB WOULD NOT allow it.. it's grandstanding.

But now, the UAL MEC has put out an ultimatum. Not sure if the NMB is even going to hear it at this early stage. Anyone know if this sort of request for release has ever been done before while negotiations are ongoing, and without having discussed all sections?

Having just read the latest UAL Meeting Update, I see that your MEC is going this route alone-

Building off of our earlier communications this week about the potential of seeking an April 30 release in response to Management's continued efforts put the negotiations in a holding pattern, I wanted to update you on some specific steps we have taken.

In particular, I want you to know that we have assembled the most highly-qualified campaign team to bolster our strategic approach and complement our ability to execute our long-term game plan.

Leading the effort is Jon Yarowksy, a partner at Patton Boggs in Washington, DC who is a former senior White House advisor to President Clinton, former General Counsel to the House Judiciary Committee (where he provided advice Members of Congress and Leadership) and very close to both the Obama White House and key players on the Hill (he was also a tailback for UCLA in the mid-seventies).

Working with Jon on the communications side is Chris Lehane and Mark Fabiani of Fabiani & Lehane. Mark and Chris are both former Clinton White House advisors, served as aides to Vice President Al Gore and are well-known Democratic operatives who have helped run various presidential, gubernatorial and senatorial campaigns.

Working with them, we have developed a comprehensive campaign to fight for all United pilots that will be called “The Unfriendly Skies."

Jon, Mark and Chris all worked together in the Clinton White House and have collaborated on successful efforts over the years. They are aggressive and proactive - and have a very simple philosophy: Play to Win.

“The Unfriendly Skies" campaign, which was discussed in a recent labor meeting in Chicago, is scheduled to be launched in conjunction with the summer travel season and will focus on the company's off-shoring of flights and out-sourcing of pilot jobs.

The campaign is expected to focus on issues such as the compromised safety for passengers and loss of jobs for America’s pilots. Additionally, we intend to have a specific social media effort designed to pro-actively reach out to consumers in order to minimize any possible disruption in their summer travel plans.

Not one mention of the CAL Pilots, CAL Staffing issues (which are huge) or anything to do with CAL.

It seems to me that the UAL MEC is or has decided to go it alone. Guess we will see how that works. As we peel away levels, we keep finding new surprises.
Guess we may all need to see what the TPA has in it with regards to separate contracts.. might be going down that road.
Again, I don't see how anyone wins.

Motch

PS> I wonder who is paying for this team.. they don't sound cheap?!

 

I find it ironic if a short survey was made of the posts on this blog concerning the JCBA one would find the following:

UAL pilots write more often about solidarity and the need to work as one while the CAL pilots write about how it might be better to go it alone.

Why is that?

"Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. The fearful are caught as often as the bold."
Helen Keller