So I guess you decide what is the "right path or the wrong path"?
Nice..

And who ever said anything about not honoring a UAL Line?
But I do find it amusing that you think that there would ever be a release followed by a strike on one side of a Joint Negotiations without the other side also being released.

Your MEC pulled the "Release Trigger" too early, and did it without the approval or backing of the CAL MEC. The NMB isn't stupid and they will see this as what it is, grandstanding and political posturing.. something that shouldn't have been done.
The next question will be, what does the NMB do about it.

Motch

 

Motch,

This is the EASILY predictable outcome of the actions of YOUR leadership. Pierce, et al sacrificed any notion of unity long ago in their quest for SLI advantages! Exactly how long did you expect the UAL pilots to tolerate that behavior?? I was VERY clear in my direction to my LEC reps after Pierce broke ranks with the Morse and negotiated a CAL specific monetary improvement to the CBA. I was also VERY clear in my communications with Lee Moak about the fallout from such behavior if he didn't do something about it. Well, now it appears that the chickens are coming home to roost, and there is no one to blame but your own leadership.

The UAL pilots, and the UAL MEC, have been open to joint communication, joint effort, and joint action since this merger began. The major impediment to all of those things was your MEC's (in the form of JP mostly) unashamed pursuit of potential advantage in the SLI!

So I support this action by my MEC because it accomplished multiple things. It will actually MOVE THE JCBA PROCESS AHEAD! Release or no release, you can bet your arse that this will generate movement. BTW, JH or the UAL MEC have NOT requested release...they put the company on notice that the WILL do it if they don't get serious in concrete ways (no more unfilled promises). Second, it FINALLY rips the power of the negotiations that JP and your MEC has been using to hold the UAL side hostage to SLI demands. You know very well that JB was serious when he addressed the UAL MEC - because that's exactly what's transpired since! You also know that JP was serious when he told my LEC FO rep that 'this is all about the SLI'! Third, this will put ALPA National and Lee Moak in a position to proactively and overtly SUPPORT us. At the very least, we'll get to see everyone's real stripes. Looking at the big picture, this move is not something that benefits UAL pilots over CAL pilots in any way! This move is good for ALL of us. The only thing that could be divisive is your MEC and JP failing to do the right thing.

I know this will cause hurt feelings and bruised egos, but as I tell people about internal ALPA politics -- I DON'T CARE about anyone's hurt feelings. What I care about is getting this profession and career back on track - and that starts with a JCBA.

 

Can you explain this please?

It accomplished multiple things............list them please


It will move the JCBA process ahead....how so?


What movement will it generate? backwards forwards and why.


BTW. Why do you think the CAL MEC NC Chair Mark Adams resigned a while back? Was there some silly stuff going on back then that led to this? What exactly was going on behind the scenes that accomplished multiple things, sped the process ahead, and generated all that movement?

I submit it did not accomplished multiple "positive" things, it will put a stranglehold on the JCBA process, and it generated negative/backwards movement. This is the case because of the recent LC communications from CAL MEC reps to their constituents directly, and as evidenced by the calling of a special MEC meeting in IAH to discuss what to do about it. They didn't need to call a special MEC meeting to clap their hands at UAL MEC's comments. The CAL MEC could have written a nice follow on speach and published it and/or released a press release in full support of UAL MEC's new "direction." I wonder why they chose to call that speicial meeting.....not to spend money and order more Johny's Pizza. The Pizza is good, but not that good.

 

[QUOTE=Ottolillienthal;1172477]

Re-read the post. I listed 3 things.

We will very publicly state that this merger is NOT going well and the the pilot group is NOT happy with the progress of the negotiations and is PREPARED TO STRIKE. That is exactly the message sent by asking for a release from the NMB. To date, we have not sent that message. The primary audiences are the financial community, politicians, and the employees of UAL.


I don't know why your committee members do what they do.... Please enlighten me on this subject, you clearly have something to say.

The JCBA process, at this point, is COMPLETELY OUT OF OUR CONTROL! The company has a long term plan that they've been executing and they plan to give us a JCBA AS LATE AS POSSIBLE. We need to change their calculus (without a job action!). I'd be interested to hear how you think this will 'stranglehold' the JCBA or move it backwards...
No doubt. The problem is that your MEC and MC's strategy has been to pursue every possible advantage in the SLI. This will definitely result in a change to that strategy. They no longer have a UAL pilot group that will sit quietly and watch our careers be threatened by your MEC and MC's actions. This strategy being unveiled by the UAL MEC is one that will advance ALL of our interests.

 

[QUOTE=AxlF16;1172489]
I respectfully disagree. While I long for a unified aproach I don't see it occuring.

There are simply too many moving parts, too much buerocracy, too much ALPA policy, too many players with different agendas, too many "chiefs", too many naive reps, too many uninformed reps, too many diverging interests to make this happen right now.

I think some cooling off is in order from both MEC's.

I think some monthly joint MEC meetings will need to take place after the appropriate cooling off.

I think Lee Moak better get his head out of the sand. If this goes bad, this is likely the end of ALPA. They'll be re-naming this the "regional Airline Pilots Association." It sort of already is that thanks to John Prater.

More and more mainline jobs get outsourced to regionals and over-seas airlines and what is ALPA doing about it? That's our primary threat!! We better get unified around that pretty quick, or we all need to go out and do the ex-pat thing.

 

The JCBA process hit a major snag 2 plus years ago with the departure of CAL NC Chair Mark Adams. It hasn't been the same since. He had a strong background in financial negotiations in a previous life. He was very good.

He is and was a genuis. I believe from speaking with UAL NC folks back then that there was much respect and that the relationship was very productive. He had the company jumping pretty high when he was at the table.

He resigned because of fairly immature goings on back then. Basically, when added up there was no deal to be had, so he backed away. Now CAL MEC gives us the PBS/scheduling guy as our new MEC Chair.

This gives us a major rub. PBS doesn't honor seniority. This is due to: lack of seniority locking, methodology of absence capture, non-contractural mandate by management to assign all trips, homogonization of flight time, moving target staffing model; also non contractural and completely within the company's perogative under the management rights clause (previous 10% reserve complement in CBA 97).

So, we got the PBS facilitator, who in my mind helps the company every month by propping up PBS now negotiaitng for us. What kind of PBS monster is ahead for us.........................

Sorry, I am on a new subject now.

Forgot what we were talking about. Oh yeah, JCBA process. It's all Jeffed up.

 

I understand your point, but I disagree with your fatalism and your solution. It IS possible to achieve unity between the MECs. I think the pilot groups ARE unified in our desires (JCBA and stable career). As I stated before, we need to get the best JCBA we can get, and let the SLI process take care of itself. As it stands, the CAL MEC and MC are intermingling the JCBA and SLI which is causing problems! Let's get them to focus on the near rocks and stop trying to control the uncontrollable.


This part I wholeheartedly agree with! I would suggest an MEC 'retreat' in a desolate area with locked doors! I would make Moak attend as well. I laid all of this out to Moak in an email exchange a couple of months ago. The problem is that all parties must be willing to engage in this type of unity in order to have the trust necessary for unified action. It's never too late to focus on our COMMON CRUCIAL goals and get our act together. Hopefully this can be the catalyst of that movement.

I agree about the threat of regional and alliance growth, but the solution lies mostly in our JCBA scope. Legislative cover would be nice, but it's not worth betting the farm on it. My most pressing concern right now is the JCBA!

 

I hear ya. The bottom line is that even Chuck Norris (or Tim Martins) couldn't negotiate a JCBA with UCH right now because they are unwilling to complete the negotiations. Hell, if we can't get a great contract with TWO negotiating committees, then we're truly boned.

 

I dunno, has anyone actually tried calling Tim Martins yet? I say we leave no stone unturned. Since he always has his flashlight for daytime walkarounds I bet he could see what's underneath that stone.....

 

It would be better than what we have now. I am tired of being held hostage by CALALPA.