Originally Posted by LAX Pilot

1) That isn't an apples-to-apples comparison. You wouldn't say the same if you were merging with Skywest (yes I know that's and extreme example)

2) Because that isn't ALPA merger policy. The lowest active pilot has almost 14 years of service. He also is still likely to be able to hold wide body CAP, which WONT happen if all the CAL pilots who are younger than him hired in the last 10 years are placed ahead of him.

So the only way to "fix" this is to make sure that he is senior according to his longevity (Notice I didn't say DOH I just said that the policy that will be used considers that.

Also, the list is skewed because of the parking of the 737's right before the merger. (Arbitrator may or may not care)

I and every other pilot totally understand the complexities of the differences of the fleets and situations, but you can't just pick one data point like someone's relative seniority or how many years the junior Capt is (NEITHER or which are in ALPA merger policy).

Guess what, the bottom pilot will be "toward the bottom" but whether that's 99%, 90%, 80% is going to depend on how the arbitrator sees it.

What if the bottom 20% of CAL pilots all end up as widebody capts and also have 25 year careers as captains still, even though they are at the bottom of the list? That's entirely possible because at UAL we are all old, most of us close to needing a cane or wheelchair to get to the gate, so we will all be gone very quickly (some not as quick as others). Plus since only 7 of us are under 40 and I know there are many on the CAL side under 40, and that has to be considered.

Originally Posted by LAX Pilot

1) That isn't an apples-to-apples comparison. You wouldn't say the same if you were merging with Skywest (yes I know that's and extreme example)

2) Because that isn't ALPA merger policy. The lowest active pilot has almost 14 years of service. He also is still likely to be able to hold wide body CAP, which WONT happen if all the CAL pilots who are younger than him hired in the last 10 years are placed ahead of him.

So the only way to "fix" this is to make sure that he is senior according to his longevity (Notice I didn't say DOH I just said that the policy that will be used considers that.

Also, the list is skewed because of the parking of the 737's right before the merger. (Arbitrator may or may not care)

I and every other pilot totally understand the complexities of the differences of the fleets and situations, but you can't just pick one data point like someone's relative seniority or how many years the junior Capt is (NEITHER or which are in ALPA merger policy).

Guess what, the bottom pilot will be "toward the bottom" but whether that's 99%, 90%, 80% is going to depend on how the arbitrator sees it.

What if the bottom 20% of CAL pilots all end up as widebody capts and also have 25 year careers as captains still, even though they are at the bottom of the list? That's entirely possible because at UAL we are all old, most of us close to needing a cane or wheelchair to get to the gate, so we will all be gone very quickly (some not as quick as others). Plus since only 7 of us are under 40 and I know there are many on the CAL side under 40, and that has to be considered.

Originally Posted by Scott Stoops

Please, please please read the Delta award. In my opinion, that will be used as somewhat of a template for the UCH award with the exception of the recent addition of longevity as a consideration that didn't exist in ALPA policy at the time of the Delta list. Longevity was clearly added to avoid a Usair Nic #2 result. Just covering their butts if you ask me. If you read the Delta award closely, you'll quickly realize that the bottom number in any seat/fleet/domicile really doesn't come into play (with the exception of no bump flush) as those super junior positions likely indicate a less desirable lifestyle (super junior, crappy life on reserve, blah, blah, blah.)

In fact, it came out more as a category(wide cap, narrow cap, etc), seat, and the number of jobs those entailed with some pullouts and reinsertions based on a number of factors. It did not matter what seat you actually bid, as they're simply slots where the legacy list pilots get slotted back into based on whatever the final list comes out for each category. You will not move on your legacy list relative to the other pilots on the list. Clearly, adding longevity into the equation changes the Delta award solution somewhat, but what the junior position is as a percentage of the list has historically not mattered in the final award. What matters is total jobs, based on category and seat.

FWIW, from a young mid-seniority L-UAL guy (3603 of ?) that has 26 years to go.

Scott

Originally Posted by Probe

You guys should have pulled out the "hat-switch" like us on the lUAL side. We sure showed them whose boss with that one. They didn't dare mess with us after that one.

Originally Posted by thor2j

Once again dreaming about 1 factor with no predetermined weight and banking and barking all about it. No way in h$ll they're ever going to go by straight longevity. Somebody 98%, dont care how long hes been her , is going ahead of somebody 60%. Please be realistic.

Yes not apples to apples. A dinosaur airline that had no real airplane orders, most planes made around wwII (along with the FA), cooked the books for the merger, and was on the verge of a big fire sale. Not apples to apples.

Originally Posted by ChrisJT6

So, if we call it all off right now and Jeff merges you with Express Jet will you spray the same pure relative seniority solution?

Pretty nice how the dreamy Real Airplane 787 is benched right as the arbitrators get cracking...Karma for all the ridiculous manipulating is coming! Never heard age of airplanes or FAs help in an SLI.

Originally Posted by Lerxst

Whether you like it or not Chris, your fate is now also tied to the success of Ol' Sparky just like the rest of us. You wishing ill will towards the CAL guys over this issue under the pretense of "Karma" is the height of hypocrisy.

Originally Posted by thor2j

A dinosaur airline that had no real airplane orders, most planes made around wwII (along with the FA), cooked the books for the merger, and was on the verge of a big fire sale. Not apples to apples.

Originally Posted by ChrisJT6

You speak up about the bone railroad job in LOA25 that was demanded by ur MEC and then you can talk to me about hypocrisy. I am confident Sparky will come around but might not be the climax of gloating over airplane orders at this particular important juncture. Insensitive yes, but I know at least 1436 see it my way on this one.
Oh yeah, those old dinosaur 756s might just have enough cycles left to stick around long enough to cover for the Sparky issues.

Originally Posted by Maxepr1

Bone Job? Yeah right...Maybe he was protecting the major portion of the guys he represents,not just the temporary guests here who would be running back to their old mothership (UAL)once the recall gates were open....I bet if was the other way around The so called bone job you state would have been elevated to a higher level. The guy was nice enough to do what right to get you here, and look at what it's become... Your bone job...... only your opinion.... Your welcome....