Baghdad Bob "Attrition is the Answer"
04-04-2015 | 12:09 PM
#141
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Kilder, let me guess. sub 30 years old, hired straight into an RJ out of some aviation school. Hired by UAL 3 years later.
Here is the deal.
There are always wars. There are always economic ups and downs.
The price of oil always changes. It spiked in 73, 82, 90, 2002, and 2008. Sound like a trend? The airlines had huge furloughs in 78 (85 recalls) 90 (96 recalls) 2001 (05 recalls), 08 (2011 recalls). My guess is you have seen less than one full cycle.
You actually just sound like the aforementioned sub-30 year old entitled, angry, turd. You probably complain for an entire 4 day trip about how you got screwed.
You, and the rest of us, are simply living through another cycle of the world. With a merger between 2 airlines thrown in just for the fun of it.
At the end of the day, the senior guys at both airlines are senior and have nothing to worry about. The middle guys have a little bit to worry about, but will still maintain their jobs no matter what (I am here). The lower third have to worry a bit. Both sides in the lower two thirds can belly ache all they want about being screwed. It won't matter, and nobody cares.
For the most part, this forum has gone past the us vs them mentality. There are still a few. You are one of the few.
If you don't like your place in life, just leave. I have, voluntarily, twice. I came back, twice. I know that a few of the black team that I fly with are not happy, but they treat me with dignity and respect at work. Most of them are just regular coworkers who treat me as another coworker.
Vacancy bids happen. Displacement bids happen. The first are good, the second, bad. Especially when a lot of pilots have lived and worked there for a decade or three. For some, displacements are good.
But, that is the life of an airline pilot.
Here is the deal.
There are always wars. There are always economic ups and downs.
The price of oil always changes. It spiked in 73, 82, 90, 2002, and 2008. Sound like a trend? The airlines had huge furloughs in 78 (85 recalls) 90 (96 recalls) 2001 (05 recalls), 08 (2011 recalls). My guess is you have seen less than one full cycle.
You actually just sound like the aforementioned sub-30 year old entitled, angry, turd. You probably complain for an entire 4 day trip about how you got screwed.
You, and the rest of us, are simply living through another cycle of the world. With a merger between 2 airlines thrown in just for the fun of it.
At the end of the day, the senior guys at both airlines are senior and have nothing to worry about. The middle guys have a little bit to worry about, but will still maintain their jobs no matter what (I am here). The lower third have to worry a bit. Both sides in the lower two thirds can belly ache all they want about being screwed. It won't matter, and nobody cares.
For the most part, this forum has gone past the us vs them mentality. There are still a few. You are one of the few.
If you don't like your place in life, just leave. I have, voluntarily, twice. I came back, twice. I know that a few of the black team that I fly with are not happy, but they treat me with dignity and respect at work. Most of them are just regular coworkers who treat me as another coworker.
Vacancy bids happen. Displacement bids happen. The first are good, the second, bad. Especially when a lot of pilots have lived and worked there for a decade or three. For some, displacements are good.
But, that is the life of an airline pilot.
No probe, you got it all wrong...
I'm not *****ing here, I'm just giving a different point of view which apparently most here get all *****y when somebody dares speak against the thought process of most here...
Probe...we are not in a recession...we are not in a war...we are not furloughing and oil is not above some outrageous price...
We are in everything opposite you mention, thus the reason for displacements are not justifiable...IAH is not losing a fleet type, or losing airplane or routes...IAH is losing 737 flight hours to LUAL bases and thus causing the displacements to most pilots that got a position in bid 13-04 and 14-08, which UALALPA had a coronary about....how convenient right?
04-04-2015 | 01:52 PM
#142
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 709
Likes: 6
From: 320 Captain
No probe, you got it all wrong...
I'm not *****ing here, I'm just giving a different point of view which apparently most here get all *****y when somebody dares speak against the thought process of most here...
Probe...we are not in a recession...we are not in a war...we are not furloughing and oil is not above some outrageous price...
We are in everything opposite you mention, thus the reason for displacements are not justifiable...IAH is not losing a fleet type, or losing airplane or routes...IAH is losing 737 flight hours to LUAL bases and thus causing the displacements to most pilots that got a position in bid 13-04 and 14-08, which UALALPA had a coronary about....how convenient right?
I'm not *****ing here, I'm just giving a different point of view which apparently most here get all *****y when somebody dares speak against the thought process of most here...
Probe...we are not in a recession...we are not in a war...we are not furloughing and oil is not above some outrageous price...
We are in everything opposite you mention, thus the reason for displacements are not justifiable...IAH is not losing a fleet type, or losing airplane or routes...IAH is losing 737 flight hours to LUAL bases and thus causing the displacements to most pilots that got a position in bid 13-04 and 14-08, which UALALPA had a coronary about....how convenient right?
And the impending surplus will reflect that. It's not about getting back at junior pilots on the 737, it's about having the correct manpower staffing for the amount of flying it does there. And right now IAH 737 is way over staffed according to the company.
DC
04-04-2015 | 02:43 PM
#143
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,213
Likes: 14
From: guppy CA
Recession??? what are you talking about..
Texas Economy at a Glance
http://www.houston.org/pdf/research/...t_a_Glance.pdf
Please Andy...don't say bull**** without backing it up...give us the data that points to a Texas or Houston Recession and also the loss of cities and routes lost to the IAH hub....
Moody's, JPMorgan economists: Houston, maybe Texas heading for recession - Houston Business Journal
Houston We Have A Problem: JPMorgan Says Texas Recession In 2015 | Seeking Alpha
"Houston, You Have A Problem" - Texas Is Headed For A Recession Due To Oil Crash, JPM Warns | Zero Hedge
Moody?s economists see recession for some Texas cities, not whole state | Dallas Morning News
Turmoil is coming to Houston area's economy - Houston Chronicle
But that isn't the scary part for oil industry dependent Houston and Texas. Here's Cushing's storage; it's at record levels:
Weekly Cushing, OK Ending Stocks excluding SPR of Crude Oil (Thousand Barrels)
And you'll find the same thing at PADDs throughout the US. To the point where many storage facilities are now limiting the amount of refined products that refineries can put in storage (there's also a glut of refined oil products).
These are all-time record highs in oil and petroleum product storage. So anyone thinking that oil prices are suddenly going to increase hasn't been watching the oil markets very closely.
Edit: None of us pilots asked for this merger. Except Smisek and Ex-Con senior management/BOD, who went to Tilton to block United from merging with US Airways. Smisek recognized that if he didn't merge with United, the only dance partner remaining was American and with route overlap, both American and Continental would have faced massive cuts.
So either stop complaining about a merger that Continental management pushed for or go find a job that you're not going to be miserable at for the rest of your career. LUAL pilots didn't make this merger happen.
To back up this edit: http://www.cleveland.com/business/in...l_negotia.html
Last edited by Andy; 04-04-2015 at 03:15 PM.
04-04-2015 | 03:06 PM
#144
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,738
Likes: 5
From: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Kilder,
Do you honestly think the union has any control over the companies decision to surplus? And if so does ALPA also have the final say on furloughs? How about bankruptcy?
Your posts paint you as an ignorant, bitter, little man.
BTW
I have been displaced a grand total of 4 times in 18 years. From wide body F/O to narrow body F/O, from instructor on the 777 and from 320 Capt to 767 F/O. If you think anybody at this airline is going to rub your back and wipe your tears away you are sorely mistaken. Most of us have been through this multiple times. My advice to you is to get a straw take a deep breath and suck it up. When you are done sucking it up get yourself a full cup and a cover, take that cover and shut the full cup.
You'd be doing us all a huge favor.
Do you honestly think the union has any control over the companies decision to surplus? And if so does ALPA also have the final say on furloughs? How about bankruptcy?
Your posts paint you as an ignorant, bitter, little man.
BTW
I have been displaced a grand total of 4 times in 18 years. From wide body F/O to narrow body F/O, from instructor on the 777 and from 320 Capt to 767 F/O. If you think anybody at this airline is going to rub your back and wipe your tears away you are sorely mistaken. Most of us have been through this multiple times. My advice to you is to get a straw take a deep breath and suck it up. When you are done sucking it up get yourself a full cup and a cover, take that cover and shut the full cup.
You'd be doing us all a huge favor.
04-04-2015 | 04:35 PM
#146
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 862
Likes: 1
From: Center seat, doing loops to music
Just a guy wondering from the outside looking at the viability of IAH basing in the upcoming years. All my Unical friends have all told me what you repeated: if hired and want houston, bid the bus.
04-04-2015 | 04:50 PM
#147
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Kilder,
Do you honestly think the union has any control over the companies decision to surplus? And if so does ALPA also have the final say on furloughs? How about bankruptcy?
Your posts paint you as an ignorant, bitter, little man.
BTW
I have been displaced a grand total of 4 times in 18 years. From wide body F/O to narrow body F/O, from instructor on the 777 and from 320 Capt to 767 F/O. If you think anybody at this airline is going to rub your back and wipe your tears away you are sorely mistaken. Most of us have been through this multiple times. My advice to you is to get a straw take a deep breath and suck it up. When you are done sucking it up get yourself a full cup and a cover, take that cover and shut the full cup.
You'd be doing us all a huge favor.
Do you honestly think the union has any control over the companies decision to surplus? And if so does ALPA also have the final say on furloughs? How about bankruptcy?
Your posts paint you as an ignorant, bitter, little man.
BTW
I have been displaced a grand total of 4 times in 18 years. From wide body F/O to narrow body F/O, from instructor on the 777 and from 320 Capt to 767 F/O. If you think anybody at this airline is going to rub your back and wipe your tears away you are sorely mistaken. Most of us have been through this multiple times. My advice to you is to get a straw take a deep breath and suck it up. When you are done sucking it up get yourself a full cup and a cover, take that cover and shut the full cup.
You'd be doing us all a huge favor.
LUAL pilots had a crappy career with a pretty dubious future at best, while LCal pilots had a somewhat good career with a positive outlook going forward.
Now all progression has gone LUAL way and plus they want to take away any gains that LCal pilots gained in the past.
Just because your career sucked does not mean you should wish it on somebody else....
The Unions job is to fight for all pilots, even those it doesn't like...that's what representation is all about, instead the Union is turning it's back on the plight of IAH based pilots....
04-04-2015 | 05:00 PM
#148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,025
Likes: 100
Dude, you just summarized LCal's argument throughout the whole ISL argument.
LUAL pilots had a crappy career with a pretty dubious future at best, while LCal pilots had a somewhat good career with a positive outlook going forward.
Now all progression has gone LUAL way and plus they want to take away any gains that LCal pilots gained in the past.
Just because your career sucked does not mean you should wish it on somebody else....
The Unions job is to fight for all pilots, even those it doesn't like...that's what representation is all about, instead the Union is turning it's back on the plight of IAH based pilots....
LUAL pilots had a crappy career with a pretty dubious future at best, while LCal pilots had a somewhat good career with a positive outlook going forward.
Now all progression has gone LUAL way and plus they want to take away any gains that LCal pilots gained in the past.
Just because your career sucked does not mean you should wish it on somebody else....
The Unions job is to fight for all pilots, even those it doesn't like...that's what representation is all about, instead the Union is turning it's back on the plight of IAH based pilots....
Nothing will change it - either find a way to live with it or move on.
04-04-2015 | 05:06 PM
#149
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
How's this for backing it up?
Moody's, JPMorgan economists: Houston, maybe Texas heading for recession - Houston Business Journal
Houston We Have A Problem: JPMorgan Says Texas Recession In 2015 | Seeking Alpha
"Houston, You Have A Problem" - Texas Is Headed For A Recession Due To Oil Crash, JPM Warns | Zero Hedge
Moody?s economists see recession for some Texas cities, not whole state | Dallas Morning News
Turmoil is coming to Houston area's economy - Houston Chronicle
But that isn't the scary part for oil industry dependent Houston and Texas. Here's Cushing's storage; it's at record levels:
Weekly Cushing, OK Ending Stocks excluding SPR of Crude Oil (Thousand Barrels)
And you'll find the same thing at PADDs throughout the US. To the point where many storage facilities are now limiting the amount of refined products that refineries can put in storage (there's also a glut of refined oil products).
These are all-time record highs in oil and petroleum product storage. So anyone thinking that oil prices are suddenly going to increase hasn't been watching the oil markets very closely.
Edit: None of us pilots asked for this merger. Except Smisek and Ex-Con senior management/BOD, who went to Tilton to block United from merging with US Airways. Smisek recognized that if he didn't merge with United, the only dance partner remaining was American and with route overlap, both American and Continental would have faced massive cuts.
So either stop complaining about a merger that Continental management pushed for or go find a job that you're not going to be miserable at for the rest of your career. LUAL pilots didn't make this merger happen.
To back up this edit: How United, Continental negotiated a 'merger of equals' | cleveland.com
Moody's, JPMorgan economists: Houston, maybe Texas heading for recession - Houston Business Journal
Houston We Have A Problem: JPMorgan Says Texas Recession In 2015 | Seeking Alpha
"Houston, You Have A Problem" - Texas Is Headed For A Recession Due To Oil Crash, JPM Warns | Zero Hedge
Moody?s economists see recession for some Texas cities, not whole state | Dallas Morning News
Turmoil is coming to Houston area's economy - Houston Chronicle
But that isn't the scary part for oil industry dependent Houston and Texas. Here's Cushing's storage; it's at record levels:
Weekly Cushing, OK Ending Stocks excluding SPR of Crude Oil (Thousand Barrels)
And you'll find the same thing at PADDs throughout the US. To the point where many storage facilities are now limiting the amount of refined products that refineries can put in storage (there's also a glut of refined oil products).
These are all-time record highs in oil and petroleum product storage. So anyone thinking that oil prices are suddenly going to increase hasn't been watching the oil markets very closely.
Edit: None of us pilots asked for this merger. Except Smisek and Ex-Con senior management/BOD, who went to Tilton to block United from merging with US Airways. Smisek recognized that if he didn't merge with United, the only dance partner remaining was American and with route overlap, both American and Continental would have faced massive cuts.
So either stop complaining about a merger that Continental management pushed for or go find a job that you're not going to be miserable at for the rest of your career. LUAL pilots didn't make this merger happen.
To back up this edit: How United, Continental negotiated a 'merger of equals' | cleveland.com
Really...A Recession my friend is not based on an analyst report of what he or she or they feel the future holds...a Recession is based on historical data that shows a contraction of an economy.
DEFINITION OF 'RECESSION'
A significant decline in activity across the economy, lasting longer than a few months. It is visible in industrial production, employment, real income and wholesale-retail trade. The technical indicator of a recession is two consecutive quarters of negative economic growth as measured by a country's gross domestic product (GDP); although the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) does not necessarily need to see this occur to call a recession.
None of this has happened and no company would base it's future moves on an analyst prediction. The economy of Houston and Texas is not the same from the 1970's, it is a diversified economy that has the necessary tools to outlive this oil issue. No indicator as I posted before shows a recession...
P.S. I'm not complaining about the merger...we are discussing the apparent desire by some to displace in IAH when many of us feel it is not necessary...why do you people keep adding arguments to this discussion???
04-04-2015 | 06:18 PM
#150
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,168
Likes: 0
From: Gets weekends off
We did not feel it was necessary to close the LAX 747 base. They did it.
We did not feel it was necessary to close the ORD 747 base. They did it.
We did not feel it was necessary to lose 30% of Airbus flying in LAX. They did it.
We did not feel it was necessary to lose 25% of Airbus flying in DEN. They did it.
We did not feel it was necessary to lose 30% of 767 flying in DEN. They did it.
You need to chat with management about this. We aren't the ones doing it. If you think our management is in bed with UALALPA and they are all buddies doing whatever we say, you don't know what kind of relationship we really have.
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