From another thread

My advise


History lesson for Prone


Fails to accept history.

I never said I was "Staller" or "570" but that doesn't stop your from repeating your attacks and your last statement is just stupidity.

This from YOUR(Probe's) prior post "I was hired in 95, with real qualifications, at the ripe young age of 32." Does this have a hint of inferiority? I don't know but why were you running around looking for a place to pay to have the 737 VMC circle restriction from your licenses - going somewhere?

 

You can say what every you want but accepting CAL back into ALPA was the right thing to do. Yes, they brought baggage but they asked for ALPA's help and we(ALPA) did the right thing.

It's interesting that you still attack the one MEC Chairman from a Major airline to help and advise the Comair pilots during your strike. You're starting to sound like the spoiled kid though - your rant will never change what RD and the UAL MEC tried to do for the Comair pilots. One good thing is it appears you found a home with the discontented of old CAL.

 

Do you even work for United?

 

We are touching on some of the problems surrounding "the pin"

ALPA leadership, through the years has caused this problem. ALPA defined what the pin used to mean, then changed what it means. ALPA changed policy again and again and therefore the meaning of the pin has changed.

Absolutely no corporate management cares about what ornaments you wear. They already know how many have dues check off. By this and this alone they know how many ball players are on the team.

ALPA needs to figure out what ALPA means today and for the future.

ALPA's inconsistent and incoherent policies and messages have resulted in confusion, especially to those that invested so much and bought the message du jour. The most disenfranchised people I know are ALPA volunteers that sacrificed a heck of allot to do the work and will of ALPA only to see ALPA sell them out. Letter's of Agreement negotiated in the dark of night, Regional Airline policy, Strikes gone bad, Strikes not voted on-but done any way, age 65, Friends of Fred (instructor cadre).

Let's find something besides a pin. Let's tell ALPA what ALPA means. I thought the pilots were on top of the pyramid. If we want ALPA to mean anything and to stand for something then we need to bring back the magic to ALPA. ALPA is just too involved in politics to be consistent regarding the goals of the profession. One big problem we have is we represent competing interests both home and abroad and we pay for those competing interests with the same revenue stream. Why pay for a commuter's contract negotiations which aim to take our flying? I don't understand how that's ethical, much less legal.

Delta pilots aren't happy with ALPA because they feel ALPA has lost its way. Maybe it's because ALPA was too inconsistent regarding policy.

One of the benefits of recalling ALPA reps that have gotten off course is to return stability to the ship. That is really what ALPA needs. Stability to the profession, but moreover, stability to the actual goals of the individual carriers pilot groups, but often times those agenda's compete with one another.....That is a big problem for a National Association.

I am not advocating any recalls, but I've seen them be effective in cases of dishonesty. But the end result was actually a culture shift, which was an unintended consequence.

 

Most of your rant has been covered several time over the years and guess what?

-I don't know how you can blame ALPA for the "Friends of Fred" network. If I'm not mistaken CAL ALPA fought this and the rank-an-file accepted it for fear of reprisal.

-The strikes gone bad reference is why you as a union member have a vote in determining the action the union takes and YOU bear as much responsibility.

-Getting the commuters in ALPA was obviously a mistake because it gave that group a sense of entitlement. Companies started forcing the bidding for flying and this caused many of the commuter/regional pilot groups to go against ALPA recommendations of holding with current contracts and not to take concessions to become part of the competitive bid. Guess that didn't work and you blame ALPA. Another far reach.

-LOA's are a part of all unions. By in large the leadership has a sense of the direction from the membership. Have wrong decisions been made - YES! But far more letters have been negotiated than not that benefited the rank and file.

-Age 65 is a favorite - ALPA fought against it until it became obvious that no amount of political capital was going to change the outcome. Without ALPA reversing course and getting involved in the process, we would have likely seen much stricter medical and training requirements. That downside could have resulted in younger guys being medically disqualified for conditions/standards that hadn't been applied before. Not sure of the details but I think the only additional training requirement was the addition of an annual line check for over 60 guys. It was the best of the options and you should be proud that ALPA looked out for your rights as well.

Don't know you motive for trying to discredit ALPA but I will say that ALPA represents the pilots of UAL and until you come up with a plan and 51% of the pilots to go along - It's not going to change.

 

I find it interesting that you say that bringing CAL and the CAL scabs back to ALPA was the right thing to do (which I don't totally disagree with), yet you keep harping on the scabs while promoting unity. You need to either accept the scabs and embrace them to truly become a unified group, or continue harping on them for being scabs and stop trying to discuss unity and your precious pin.

As for Dubinksy, he was not the only one to help/advise during the Comair strike, and nor did I say that. My point was that L-UAL voted to bring them back, yet L-UAL pilots are some of the most vicious against the scabs...and most have never had to make that decision, and I assume that includes yourself.

As for me being discontented...nothing could be further from the truth. You won't find a happier employee than myself. I have always dreamt of flying for either CAL or UAL, each for different reasons, and I got the best of both worlds. I came by it honestly, by working my arse off, and not without some sacrifices by myself and my family along the way.

I wonder if you dare mutter the term "RD" to the NWA pilots, esp. the ones that walked in 1998, which no "RD" pilot has ever done.

You've obviously never worked for a regional. I've personally heard reps from ALPA National say that regional pilots should take concessions "because it's the best we can do right now," with promises to "make it up later." The mistake was not in allowing regionals into ALPA. The mistake was not in embracing them and using the collective numbers to improve conditions for everyone, from top to bottom, starting with solid brand scope and minimum pay and work rules. ALPA still condones a race to the bottom in many respects. The mere fact that ALPA regional airlines have pay scales for EMB-170/175/190/195's and CRJ-700/900's that are markedly lower than those in a legacy contract is evidence of that....and only lowers our pay across the board.

I reiterate what I said earlier, and what others have tried to point out: our own past experiences, whether with an airline or not, or whether with ALPA or not, directly affect each of our view points on unions in general and ALPA in particular. For reasons that nobody can understand, you have a hard time accepting that or understanding it. Instead, you carry on about how great you think ALPA is (and, as I have said before, they have done good things), and offer no acceptance of the credibility of others and their experiences, and you tell us how precious that silly tie pin is, all while preaching "unity," but not exactly practicing it.

The union, however, has lost its way, and it simply can not adequately represent all of its members. SWAPA, APA, and IPA all recognize that. I believe in time--and I hope--that a similar sentiment will affect the legacy carriers.

 

We have some strong young leaders that will see that ALPA will be around for a long time. If you entitled feel the need to make change do it and quit talking about how bad your life is with ALPA. Go to meetings and try to make changes to your liking. I'm sure you'll find far more supporting ALPA than following you entitled sentiment.

To say that ALPA embraced the scabs is an overstatement. How would you have handled it had you been king?

You need to get off the Comair thing. You're starting to give the Comair pilots a bad rap for your personal gain - that's wrong. I know several ex-Comair guys and you are in a minority of opinion and claims against ALPA, the UAL MEC and RD.

For someone to have seen and heard a such as you claim over the years of bad ALPA and official mischief, why didn't you speak up? I don't know which is worst - to see and hear wrong thing and not act or to make up stories of hearing and seeing to justify you arguments.

 

The fakt dat u kant tipe cohearently tellz me eberyting bout youu tat i kneed to no.

 

Not worth the effort - may your career be as fruitful as your past.

 

We don't need to embrace the scabs to be unified.

Nobody wants to be unified with the scum of the earth.

Scabs are left out of the equation. They only care about themselves and aren't much good anyway.

The non scabs need to come together. We're the VAST majority.

You are most likely one of them…so I guess I won't convince you.