The company wants to extend the contract because they want to obtain special financing for an aircraft buy... And they need 2 extra years. I think without any givebacks it's not a bad deal... But need to see it in writing.

 

117 doesn't restrict any flight that operates normally, it DID remove the "legal to start, legal to finish BS." The company has a mechanism in place, as does 117, to deal with delays but they are choosing not to utilize it to prove a point. They would rather show who has the upper hand than fly the schedule, that's THEIR problem- NOT ours. They ROUTINELY pay in excess of 100 hours in add pay rather than pay four guys five hours each to extend, excuse me if I don't feel like rushing in and helping a management with that kind of attitude.

 

It's not, and never has been, about "rushing in and helping management". It's about maximizing negotiating capital to gain improvements for the pilot group by taking advantage of leverage when it exists. If what you say is true (and I'm not questioning whether it is or not since I'm not a widebody guy), then we should be thankful that management ego and stupidity is costing them millions of dollars of add pay because they refuse to offer 5 hours to the crew to extend. What a win for the pilots. With a new management team at the helm it's entirely possible they will audit this practice and realize that they have stupidly been costing themselves a LOT of money, fix the practice, and eliminate the leverage. Then you end up with basically the same situation as you have with the AIP, but with $0 paid by the company in exchange.

 

I am cautiously optimistic you are correct. I know for a fact that Munoz was told in no uncertain terms exactly how Smisek's management style, "F the pilots-they will not EVER have the upper hand", was severely handcuffing the operation of the highest profile flights: HKG, BOM, and DEL. We'll see how it all shakes out, F Smisek and the horse he rode in on.

 

Everyone wants to know whats "in it for them specificially". Thats fine.
Just remember if ur on reserve or a g line guy, u can also be displaced to a different pay anding AC, as well as going back to reserve due to decreased staffing.

This deal doesnt do much except get more money to the mgmnt selected groups to get enough votes tomassure passage. They have that. His pilot group has shown time and time again, whats in it for me.. Great, now pull up the ladder!

From a narrowbody barely a lineholder guy, less widebody staffing could mean bumps/displacements possibly and then i go back on reserve with crappy rules, all bc stuff rolls downhill. Ill pass. So thats just a perspective from a petty little narrowbody guy at the g line. We're not "creating jobs". We are working harder for petty monetary increases

This extension needs to be seen in the same regards as the current contract and shouod be worth 1/2
Wasnt the current contract worth approx a billion, so how does the $ equate to over 500 million, and that truly means, nothing has changed bc we got ZERO work rules..... Zero
Abe u ever seen a company need something so bad they get a deal done so quickly. Hey need this more than we need it. Thats a fact!
Somto me it equates to an extra 10-13k as a lineholder after taxes. Sorry but the potential downside is worse than that time value of money.
They will be back with work rule improvements if it doesnt pass, but it will

What a sad state of affiars

 

Think about this for a second. You walk up to a pilot who is sitting reserve in the CPO and *****ing about how bad it is and they are all about QOL and gave him two scenarios.

1) Be allowed to downbid to a fleet that he can hold a line on and get the SAME PAY RATE they are currently getting, (i.e. no more reserve but the higher rate) or

2) Same position they are currently reserve in but a 16% pay raise.

I think you'd be shocked to find that most guys complaining about reserve would take the money, stay in their seat, and forego the QOL improvement. But they'd still complain about how we need to "fix" reserve.

Most guys on reserve bid it for the higher position and the money. Those are the guys that chase the paychecks.

Just calling it like it is.

 

If this thing passes and the rumors are correct I will take the money and keep my reserve seat and I will continue to ***** about how bad reserve is BECAUSE IT WASNT FIXED!!!!!

 

I applaud your honesty. I'd do the same. Most guys won't admit it but they'd take 16% and stay on reserve vs the same pay and being a lineholder.

Guys I'm on the same side as you but I don't think that reserve is going to ever be fixed. The majority of pilots are lineholders, and they make the decisions around here about which contracts pass and which don't unfortunately.

 

In two threads you are missing the idea that when (not if) things change and manpower shrinks reserve may not be a choice.

 

We have a bingo. It's approximately an 80/20 (once again, "approximately") split and most vote their family and personal interest. 'Been through five of these things.