I don't post here very often, but I cannot agree more.

This may not be a dream contract, but there is too much money on the table to risk a drawn out negotiation that will likely just rearrange the value of this deal, imho.

The DAL TA had to sell profit sharing, sick leave, JV scope etc. to achieve these rates--we get them, essentially for free (save for the hope of leverage in Section 6). Plus a NSNB that adds mainline jobs.

Once DAL gets a deal, we match those rates going into section 6 in 2 years and we can spend negotiating capital then to fix the woes of the current contract. Meanwhile, it's money in the pocket and a new bar for pattern bargaining.

The value is an industry leading contract today, no matter how you look at it. Maybe not everything we want, but we don't negotiate in a vacuum.

Just my .02

 

I'm still curious to see the final language.

But as far as leverage goes, we do have some but I don't see it as much as some here like to believe, but what is to stop them from getting rid of 747s sooner, putting 787s on those routes and then having codeshare partners fly the routes in question from the FRMS?

Not rectifying the furloughs....seems like they are buying a percentage of a vote with that and even then not the whole group is being made whole on every injustice.

Pay raise....they are sweetening the pot for the <5 years left guys. Would you rather make another 20-40k a year for the next 5, or wait and see what happens for your last 2-3 years, would it be enough to make up for that lost money? Doubt it.

No reserve improvements sounds bogus and I have to believe there has to be something in there or ~20% of the group is affected, granted a portion of them can't vote, or will still go for the $$.

Pay for extension has been battled from both points of view, it'd be nice to be paid for "overtime" but also isn't good to incentivize possibly flying fatigued.

No mention of NSNB aircraft, which may mean they are looking at a deal, haven't disclosed a deal, there is no deal or maybe they just got CS100 rates on the contract officially and possibly bumped the E190/195 rates as well to draw some attention and get Embraer and Bombardier to duke it out for who can come up with the best deal for us.


With all that in mind, what am I missing as far as leverage goes? And if this gets voted down are we potentially giving away widebody flying to codeshare partners?

 

Your last point, exactly. What the company wants via FRMS, benefits us as well. More UL flying.

There is nothing negative in the AIP, if the bullet points are correct. Perhaps there are those that wish for more positives, but I believe that with no pressure to negotiate higher pay, puts us in a far better negotiating position going forward. While the two sides spend four years negotiating our next contract, we are still get industry leading pay.

 

I disagree. The negative is a moderate pay raise and no other improvement. With record profits? Getting less than we deserve is definitely a negative. We should be swinging for the moon. This is not enough in my opinion. I expected more pay, remember, they came to us. I also expected improvements in reserve.

 

I think the best thing that would improve reserve in the future is one feature American used to have. They might still have it, I don't know.

Every pilot at the airline has to be on reserve 1 month a year. Even the number one guy. The bottom guy gets a line most months, and everyone has skin in the game as far as the reserve system goes.

There is zero cost to implement this. The company would probably agree with no negotiations.

I have been bumped out of 2 bases, and was a 757 FO 3 different times. I bid Captain 10 years ago knowing I was going to be the bottom guy, and was, for 3 years. I currently bid reserve about half the time, and go Cha-ching evertime they give me a short call. My personal opinion is I wouldn't give one dime in pay to make commuting to reserve easy.

If commuting to reserve was a great job, it would change how everybody bids. Every BES would become a "stovepipe" with seniority. The way it currently is, we all have choices to make with money vs QOL. It opens up more opportunity, for all of us.

 

Use to have? Maybe there's a reason it no longer exists?
That would be a hell no vote for me and I've spent some time on reserve!

 

good idea. maybe have capts and copilots swap seats and roles every leg.
maybe have a320 guys do a month of Europe 777 flying once a year
maybe have senior pilots work xmas and junior guys home for holidays
any other genius ideas ?

 

I never said I thought it would pass. I think most line holders don't care about reserves, and some on reserve like it (me).

I like unused SC's. I never fly on them, and I get an hour of pay. Bring em on.

I would also vote "no" if I knew I was giving up money to make commuting to reserve better.

I get one vote, as does everyone else. We add them up in the end, and the majority rules.

And no matter what we have, a few percent will complain. And those few percent will be vocal on these forums, 9 out of ten times. The 9 out of 10 that are satisfied, don't come here and voice their opinion.

It seems about 50/50 between yes and no. From what I have seen in the past, I think it will be an overwhelming majority that passes this TA if it comes to a vote. Maybe >75%.

 

I just took a bid to the 777 so I'm one of the idiots going to reserve as a choice. I've bid reserve lines on the 767 when I was above the G-line, as well. I live in base and try to get short calls whenever possible.

Here are a few observations of the reserve system:

1. Moveable days should be eliminated. If the company needs you to fly into days off, there should be huge penalties. At a previous carrier where we had an ALPA contract, we would get 8 hours of encroachment pay for assigned flying on a day off plus 150% pay for what you flew. It made it very expensive for the company and very lucrative for the reserve pilot.

2. Pure short call lines. Short call lines should get paid higher MPG or get more guaranteed days off. It eliminates e headache for the commuters stuck on RSV because the guys who live local WILL bid the SC lines.

3. Publish what the min RSV coverage is daily and make it realistic.

4. Reserves cover flying in their domicile. No more of this system reserve BS. A RSV pilot only gets pulled out of base to cover other domiciles as a last resort...like it used to be in UAL contract.

People say fix reserve, but I've never seen suggestions of what specifically needs fixing. This is my list. Any other suggestions?

 

You want QOL go work for mother Theresa . Your an airline pilot , you sit reserve for year or 2 then pass on.