All legitimate questions, and I certainly understand your position. Considering neither of us were in the room, we are merely speculating on our leverage and whether we extracted it to the maximum. But now that there is some candor about the fact that things with the company were far from easy in this negotiation, I suspect that a full Section 6 would be as contentious as usual. From there I simply view the progress (or lack thereof) of our brothers and sisters at other carriers as a template of what we can expect during a similar negotiating environment.

As you and I have debated, I think really it comes down to a difference of opinion of how what the risk/reward plays out. If it takes 2-3 years to get a full section 6 contract it would NEED to be a $340/hr contract just to get close to breaking even. It's not just a 13% pay raise. It's a 13% pay raise for EVERY DAY that we have it vs a full section 6 contract negotiation. I reject Scott's contention that we are a weak and scared pilot group. In 2003 when we were told we were 72 hours from closing the doors, maybe. But not now. It's merely a matter of different assessments of how much immediate $$ are worth long term, vs the expected length of a full section 6 negotiation. I'm going to throw my hat behind the guys that were in the room that have a true sense of what the company's mindset is. The same group who brought us a pretty darned good contract in 2012 when the difficulties were massive.

But as I said, I can respect your reasons for voting no even if I don't see them the same way

 

I never said nor am I sure how I will vote. One has to be realistic not only about the terms of the TA and the negotiating environment but also about the parties involved.

 

Complete and utter BS.

The fact that the LOA25 fix is in this deal especially with this MC assures it would be item #1 in any subsequent deal as it should be.

 

Or will they throw up their hands for the ULH flying and hand it over to a codeshare where they still make money selling tickets but we no longer get to fly the planes? Third times a charm.
It's not like they weren't just ready to park a lot of 757 and 767 aircraft, or that they have kept on the 747 longer than anticipated.

I don't know about some of you but I'd prefer we fly these routes and continue adding more ULH. It's good for the company, it's good for us, that is unless you don't like adding flying at the top of our pay scale.

 

Thankfully, Rick Dubinsky and other strong labor leaders didn't use that as their sole criterion in securing contractual improvements.

 

Well said -

 

Right. Rick said that we needed to choke the golden goose and get every last egg. It has been a favorite punch line in the Wall Street Journal and other financial publications ever since.

 

Rick Dubinsky was the key leader in saving this profession in 1985 and he led negotiations of the only non-concessionary section six contracts prior to the merger deal in 2012.

Wall Street and management's use of the quote and his nickname, 'Maddog,' are an indications of their frustration and respect for his abilities. Your use of it is an indication of your ignorance of his contributions to all of us.

 

Lol, he sure helped himself.

 

Oh my, I've insulted the Prophet! As I said, that quote has been used extensively since then to highlight how dismal and dysfunctional the UAL franchise became from 2000 on. I hope you enjoyed it.