You asked for "concessions" that continued or were created in c2012. I gave a few, and admitted that in the very same sections there were improvements too.

Again some areas we did go backwards for the UAL folks.

Junior manning
Captains flying as F/O's
Call out time on reserve
FSB no pay or credit
The Pay bands

And in other areas we stayed exactly the same as our existing BK contract that was a concession in 2003/2005. So not fixing a previous concession doesn't mean it's no longer a concession.

DC

 

FMLA...........

 

I think a more valid question would be to ask what are the concessions from your last pre bankruptcy/reorganization contract. If we really want to move the bar forward, the floor has to be set correctly. In sUal's case, we lost $1.2 billion/YEAR in CH11.

Some will say we'll never return to those contracts. I contend that if you don't start, you never will.

 

Good point. Although some items are hard to compare. For example while our older pilots would prefer to go back to a A fund, our younger generation would prefer to keep the 16% B/C fund. Same goes with having a min duty period guarantee ,but today we have a min calendar day guarantee. Depending on the situation one might be better that the other.

The core of the issue being asked is C2012 worse than the C2003 rewrite?

 

There were some improvements in C2012 over C2003. I think we as a group need to have a general consensus of the big picture, of where we want to go, and how will we get there. The company most certainly is laser focused, under one mindset, and has a long term plan for us.

I think the pilot group needs a leader who can clearly and concisely educate our value. I'm not referring to educating the company, but the pilots. From new hires to wide body Captains, the range of values that we place upon ourselves is astonishing. Currently, our pilot costs per total revenue at United is at a historic low.

We need to decide what kind of future contracts we want. Do we want to work solely for $$$ and discount the rest of the contract, or do we want a more balanced contract that provides better benefits, QOL, and QWL? The first is very transparent for all, the second will take education for some to view the benefits.

Finally, we as a cohesive group need to decide how we will get there. It will take sacrifices and determination. A large cross section of the pilot group will have to buy in and it will take a strong leader to convince them. It will not end with one contract but will take several in order to leave our profession in a better position than we find ourselves in now.

I'm not arguing for or against this TA but rather our future. Somehow, sometime, we will need to come to a consensus. Until that occurs, the company will always have the upper hand and will explore every rift to their advantage. As the cliche goes, United we stand, divided we fall.

 

The United contract in place at the time of of C2012 had pay banding. It was forced on us in bankruptcy, but it was not a new concession.

 

It was nothing ridiculous like the current one. Bus was bus pay. 75/76 was the same. 777/747. The current banding was another failed attempt to sway the SLI. 3 different pay scales for 3 planes I operate with the same type rating? Does that really make sense to anyone?

757-200 767-300 767-400 all pay different and all a common type. It was just another in a list of attempts to sway the SLI.

 

That the current pay banding is ridiculous is simply your opinion, to which you are entitled. For me, it is just different. It alters the way I think about moving up in category. It also ALLOWS me to move up to 756 if I want, which was never even close to available at LUAL. So, it opens opportunity, but doing so gives me little to no financial incentive to do so. Do I want to fly 756, or 73/320? I never had, or would I have now, that same opportunity under our old pay banding. Most other united pilots are in the same situation.

Losing 30 minutes of callout is a concession, although it rarely happens. Losing pay for FSB is a concession, that I would like to see fixed as well.

Captains flying as FO's, Anybody done it? I have not, and have not seen it done.

But, look what we do have now, even without the contract extension:
3.5 to 1 - gone since bankruptcy
m5d - we never had this
premium pay - we never had this



These last 3 are huge, especially 3.5 to 1, and m5d. These affect mostly the middle to junior line holders, which is the majority of united pilots. 7 years ago, most narrow body pilots at LUAL had TAFB of 360 to 380 every month. Now, that number is 230-280, with a few slightly above 300. THIS IS HUGE.

Our current contract is not perfect, but is also not concessionary, at least in my opinion.

If the union negotiated less money so reserves can sit at home 1000 miles from base, I would vote no.

 

Also noteworthy was the community reinvestment act of 1977 which actually was the catalyst for the complete failure of the housing markets and nearly collapse of our banking system. One more mention of note was the Bush hearings questioning the financial solvency of FannyMae and FredyMac. Of course the Democrats, Barney Frank, in particular, scoffed at the hearings as a witch hunt and proclaimed "these institutions are as strong as the rock of Gibraltar". And then shortly after the housing market collapsed. Naturally the left pointed to the greed of mortgage brokers and banks but in reality it was the repeal GlassSteagull Act and the new community reinvestment act

 

Exactly the problem with the movie coming out based on the Michael Lewis book "The Big Short." It ignores what you mentioned above and focuses exclusively on the Wall Street angle. Typical Hollywood.