Is It The Pay Houston ?
04-30-2016, 01:47 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,253
Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer
Grass always greener?
05-01-2016, 06:10 AM
#32
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 846
Originally Posted by intrepidcv11
Of course it is. Our oracles commonly point their hard truth that United is doomed to eternal suckness due to the merger and Jay Pierce. Nobody is enjoying the rapid movement and industry leading monthly pay check. It will clearly suck to work here forever.
Sorry you feel the need to defend JP but in the airline business you only get one chance to screw your fellow pilots. After that the offender is doomed to walk the halls scorned and head down in shame. The only hope that JP had of being SPECIAL again left when his buddy JS got fired.
05-01-2016, 06:33 AM
#33
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Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 846
Originally Posted by XHooker
I think you're half right. If I remember correctly, the last CALALPA pre-merger contract proposal had the 764 in the highest pay band while the was 763 attached to the 762 and 753 in a lower band. The actual CAL pay bands at the time of the merger had all 767s in the highest pay band, while the 747 was banded with the 777 and all 757s and 767s were banded together at UAL.
I agree there was probably posturing by CALALPA in wanting to keep the 764 in the highest band. It had potential SLI implications and was a fleet flown by LCAL pilots and would remain so until after the SLI, so it made sense in looking out for their pilots they would attempt to keep it in the highest pay band. What you neglect to mention is UALALPA attempted to do the exact same thing with the 744, breaking it into its own, new, top paying rate, despite the fact it was banded to the 777 at the time of the merger.
Long story short, both sides did a lot of maneuvering that got us to where we are now and none of it matters anymore... except... we're hiring a lot of pilots who don't carry any legacy baggage and shouldn't be filled up with revisionist history.
I agree there was probably posturing by CALALPA in wanting to keep the 764 in the highest band. It had potential SLI implications and was a fleet flown by LCAL pilots and would remain so until after the SLI, so it made sense in looking out for their pilots they would attempt to keep it in the highest pay band. What you neglect to mention is UALALPA attempted to do the exact same thing with the 744, breaking it into its own, new, top paying rate, despite the fact it was banded to the 777 at the time of the merger.
Long story short, both sides did a lot of maneuvering that got us to where we are now and none of it matters anymore... except... we're hiring a lot of pilots who don't carry any legacy baggage and shouldn't be filled up with revisionist history.
The only 747 provision was the FENCE as the SLI was determined by CURRENT MERGER POLICY something that CALALPA failed to realize until late in the JCBA negotiations. JP did come back with a "me too fence" for the 787 and even that didn't have an impact on SLI.
As far a revisionist history, you can cut and paste to prove any point you like but the reality was CALALPA working directly with JS to undermine the JCBA at the expense of UALALPA pilots. The last agreement to come across the table from JS and CALALPA's JP caught them flat footed when UALALPA agreed. Accepting this agreement was done to stop the seniority theft by the company and CALALPA by locking UALALPA pilots out of bids. (Evidenced by LEC Ben Salley trying to make special deals to protect the ill-gotten bids in IAH of that period.)
You want to call it revisionist history - have at it but it doesn't change the facts. History will record it correctly. Many CAL pilots joined with the UAL pilots to stop the games being played by CALALPA's JP and JS at the expense of ALL United pilots. JS along with CALALPA's JP did more harm to the unified pilot group than any gains CALALPA's JP had hoped for. Good thing is CALALPA's JP will never serve in an official elected ALPA position and will continue to walk the halls with his head down in shame.
Any reference to UALALPA trying to advantage itself during SLI by putting the 747 in a higher pay band is/was BS. The 767-400 was advantaged by putting it in a higher pay band and disadvantaging the 767-300 by put it in the lower 757 pay band but only for pay not SLI. Two different things as CALALPA's JP found out. Even the Airbus got in the act by sectioning it off and putting it in different lower pay band.
05-01-2016, 08:03 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 737 fo
Posts: 908
Originally Posted by AllenAllert
The real long and short of it is the new hires are big girls and boys. I think enough of the hiring process that they'll be able to filter the chaff.
The only 747 provision was the FENCE as the SLI was determined by CURRENT MERGER POLICY something that CALALPA failed to realize until late in the JCBA negotiations. JP did come back with a "me too fence" for the 787 and even that didn't have an impact on SLI.
As far a revisionist history, you can cut and paste to prove any point you like but the reality was CALALPA working directly with JS to undermine the JCBA at the expense of UALALPA pilots. The last agreement to come across the table from JS and CALALPA's JP caught them flat footed when UALALPA agreed. Accepting this agreement was done to stop the seniority theft by the company and CALALPA by locking UALALPA pilots out of bids. (Evidenced by LEC Ben Salley trying to make special deals to protect the ill-gotten bids in IAH of that period.)
You want to call it revisionist history - have at it but it doesn't change the facts. History will record it correctly. Many CAL pilots joined with the UAL pilots to stop the games being played by CALALPA's JP and JS at the expense of ALL United pilots. JS along with CALALPA's JP did more harm to the unified pilot group than any gains CALALPA's JP had hoped for. Good thing is CALALPA's JP will never serve in an official elected ALPA position and will continue to walk the halls with his head down in shame.
Any reference to UALALPA trying to advantage itself during SLI by putting the 747 in a higher pay band is/was BS. The 767-400 was advantaged by putting it in a higher pay band and disadvantaging the 767-300 by put it in the lower 757 pay band but only for pay not SLI. Two different things as CALALPA's JP found out. Even the Airbus got in the act by sectioning it off and putting it in different lower pay band.
The only 747 provision was the FENCE as the SLI was determined by CURRENT MERGER POLICY something that CALALPA failed to realize until late in the JCBA negotiations. JP did come back with a "me too fence" for the 787 and even that didn't have an impact on SLI.
As far a revisionist history, you can cut and paste to prove any point you like but the reality was CALALPA working directly with JS to undermine the JCBA at the expense of UALALPA pilots. The last agreement to come across the table from JS and CALALPA's JP caught them flat footed when UALALPA agreed. Accepting this agreement was done to stop the seniority theft by the company and CALALPA by locking UALALPA pilots out of bids. (Evidenced by LEC Ben Salley trying to make special deals to protect the ill-gotten bids in IAH of that period.)
You want to call it revisionist history - have at it but it doesn't change the facts. History will record it correctly. Many CAL pilots joined with the UAL pilots to stop the games being played by CALALPA's JP and JS at the expense of ALL United pilots. JS along with CALALPA's JP did more harm to the unified pilot group than any gains CALALPA's JP had hoped for. Good thing is CALALPA's JP will never serve in an official elected ALPA position and will continue to walk the halls with his head down in shame.
Any reference to UALALPA trying to advantage itself during SLI by putting the 747 in a higher pay band is/was BS. The 767-400 was advantaged by putting it in a higher pay band and disadvantaging the 767-300 by put it in the lower 757 pay band but only for pay not SLI. Two different things as CALALPA's JP found out. Even the Airbus got in the act by sectioning it off and putting it in different lower pay band.
But wait, aren't you the same guy that thinks Oscar faked his heart attack...
How have you been doing with the greviences with your perceived ill-gotten gains? You are 0-for all of them. Maybe they were not so ill-gotten after all.
JP was fighting for his pilots. The pilots of CALALPA. You were not one of them. JH and UALALPA was fighting for their pilots. Y'all won, get over it.
There is one guy I know of that is doing much more damage now than JP is and that is YOU. You really thrive on re-hashing old stuff to bring on disunity.
05-01-2016, 08:04 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,750
Originally Posted by intrepidcv11
Of course it is. Our oracles commonly point their hard truth that United is doomed to eternal suckness due to the merger and Jay Pierce. Nobody is enjoying the rapid movement and industry leading monthly pay check. It will clearly suck to work here forever.
05-01-2016, 08:35 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,083
Originally Posted by AllenAllert
The real long and short of it is the new hires are big girls and boys. I think enough of the hiring process that they'll be able to filter the chaff.
The only 747 provision was the FENCE as the SLI was determined by CURRENT MERGER POLICY something that CALALPA failed to realize until late in the JCBA negotiations. JP did come back with a "me too fence" for the 787 and even that didn't have an impact on SLI.
As far a revisionist history...
Any reference to UALALPA trying to advantage itself during SLI by putting the 747 in a higher pay band is/was BS.
The 767-400 was advantaged by putting it in a higher pay band and disadvantaging the 767-300 by put it in the lower 757 pay band but only for pay not SLI.
Even the Airbus got in the act by sectioning it off and putting it in different lower pay band.
Look, most of us are over the SLI, JCBA and whole merger process, why can't you do the same?
05-01-2016, 10:25 AM
#38
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 846
Originally Posted by sleeves
If JP and Calalpa wanted to turn down the contract all they had to do was vote no. The vote never would have gone to the pilots. CALALPA had that power. If they were in some crazy collusion like you claim they would have. They voted yes.
The only power CALALPA had was their alliance with JS. Otherwise everything JP did was to weaken the combined pilot group. Once JS and JP slide the agreement over to the UAL side it was almost impossible to retract it without exposing their collusion.
How have you been doing with the greviences with your perceived ill-gotten gains? You are 0-for all of them. Maybe they were not so ill-gotten after all.
No need for a grevience because the carve out down in Houston by Ben Salley was soundly defeated at the MEC level - keep up.
JP was fighting for his pilots. The pilots of CALALPA. You were not one of them. JH and UALALPA was fighting for their pilots. Y'all won, get over it.
No doubt but it was done by following the merger policy and staying on the high ground instead of the mud with JS and JP
There is one guy I know of that is doing much more damage now than JP is and that is YOU. You really thrive on re-hashing old stuff to bring on disunity. You have to remember the history.
The only power CALALPA had was their alliance with JS. Otherwise everything JP did was to weaken the combined pilot group. Once JS and JP slide the agreement over to the UAL side it was almost impossible to retract it without exposing their collusion.
How have you been doing with the greviences with your perceived ill-gotten gains? You are 0-for all of them. Maybe they were not so ill-gotten after all.
No need for a grevience because the carve out down in Houston by Ben Salley was soundly defeated at the MEC level - keep up.
JP was fighting for his pilots. The pilots of CALALPA. You were not one of them. JH and UALALPA was fighting for their pilots. Y'all won, get over it.
No doubt but it was done by following the merger policy and staying on the high ground instead of the mud with JS and JP
There is one guy I know of that is doing much more damage now than JP is and that is YOU. You really thrive on re-hashing old stuff to bring on disunity. You have to remember the history.
05-01-2016, 10:54 AM
#39
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 846
Originally Posted by XHooker
The fences were not required by policy, they were instituted by the arbitrators.
That's correct, the fences were not required by policy but were authorized at the request of UALALPA and "me too" request for the 787 by CALPALPA's JP.
Talk to those on the NCs and MECs at the time. It never made it to the JCBA, but it was pursued by LUALALPA.
Your claim that UALALPA tried to create a separate/ higher pay scale for the 747 to improve SLI for the UALALPA side is incorrect. UALALPA tried to put the 747 in a higher pay band with it's replacement the 350. CALALPA's JP paranoia kicked in as he thought it would disadvantage CALALPA's position for SLI.
Look, most of us are over the SLI, JCBA and whole merger process, why can't you do the same?
Last edited by AllenAllert; 05-01-2016 at 11:33 AM.
05-01-2016, 11:58 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,253
Originally Posted by AllenAllert
Sorry you feel the need to defend JP but in the airline business you only get one chance to screw your fellow pilots. After that the offender is doomed to walk the halls scorned and head down in shame. The only hope that JP had of being SPECIAL again left when his buddy JS got fired.
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