Is It The Pay Houston ?
05-02-2016, 04:57 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: 737 Cap
Posts: 451
Originally Posted by svergin
1) Not true. We "had been" Captains but were FOs when the merger happened. I was one of them.
2) We had pilots WAY out of seniority in left seats at CAL because we had a terrible base structure and a horrible reserve system.
I'm tired of the "we can all hold Captain" when in fact we all know what the real story was on those out-of-seniority Captains. And none of us were Captains in DEN, ORD, LAX, or SFO.
2) We had pilots WAY out of seniority in left seats at CAL because we had a terrible base structure and a horrible reserve system.
I'm tired of the "we can all hold Captain" when in fact we all know what the real story was on those out-of-seniority Captains. And none of us were Captains in DEN, ORD, LAX, or SFO.
Thanks for your post, svergin.
05-02-2016, 08:56 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 737 fo
Posts: 908
Originally Posted by Scott Stoops
And those way out of seniority Captains heavily distorted seniority in places like Den. 7400 is still holding den cap and driving to work, while there are lots of us stuck far senior to that but with no bids and no bumping rights on the outside looking in. It really did bastardize the process, which really hasn't even remotely started to sort itself out. Some won, some lost. Fine. But let's at least be honest about what really happened.
Thanks for your post, svergin.
Thanks for your post, svergin.
05-02-2016, 11:37 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: 737 Cap
Posts: 451
Originally Posted by sleeves
Yes they are out of seniority now but when the bids came out, they were not. When bid 13-08, came out the company had planes coming, the contract was not done and the seniority process had not even started. 14-02 the contract had just been signed but who knew how long the SLI would take. It is part of the merger process. I agree some were in the right place at the right time. I am not sure how else you would have done it.
05-02-2016, 01:25 PM
#55
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 846
Originally Posted by Scott Stoops
The United side had a wide body centric weak MEC chairman and the result was a horrible transition agreement for all involved. It didn't have to be the way it turned out. Just another ridiculous outcome of what in the end will be the way not to merge two companies.
The UALALPA MEC had no say in this issue. The only agreement the company was willing to make was to hire furloughed UALs pilot with no senority.
The company(JS) and CALALPA JP didn't want a piecemeal approach of integration. My guess is they felt by stacking the CAL side with Captains it would have and ultimate impact on the SLI and control of the combined Union. I really think JS thought he'd rule the new combined pilot group like had been done with prior CAL unions and CALALPA under Fred and the friends of Fred.
Last edited by AllenAllert; 05-02-2016 at 01:39 PM.
05-02-2016, 01:39 PM
#56
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 846
Originally Posted by XHooker
So exactly where did you correct me?
Your assumption that the UALALPA MEC attempted like CALALPA JP used JCBA and pay banding as a way to inflate the UAL side for SLI.
Just go back and look at the UAL/CAL side suggestions for integration. The final result was MUCH closer to the UAL side suggestion. Many on the low side of UAL senority didn't fair as would have been liked but the UAL side held to the New Merger Policy.
JP's shenanigans created the distrust and disunity that causes these little rants and tirades.
05-02-2016, 01:42 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: 737 Cap
Posts: 451
Originally Posted by AllenAllert
The UALALPA MEC had no say in this issue. The only agreement the company was will to make was to hire furloughed UALs pilot with no senority.
The company(JS) and CALALPA JP didn't want a piecemeal approach of integration. My guess is they felt by stacking the CAL side with Captains it would have and ultimate impact on the SLI and control of the combined Union. I really think JS thought he'd rule the new combined pilot group like had been done with prior CAL unions and CALALPA under Fred and the friends of Fred.
The company(JS) and CALALPA JP didn't want a piecemeal approach of integration. My guess is they felt by stacking the CAL side with Captains it would have and ultimate impact on the SLI and control of the combined Union. I really think JS thought he'd rule the new combined pilot group like had been done with prior CAL unions and CALALPA under Fred and the friends of Fred.
On the subject of collusion of calpa and cal leadership, I agree. Jp and brucia hurt the entire airline but more tragically the cal side more than most realize or are willing to accept.
05-02-2016, 02:47 PM
#58
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 846
Originally Posted by Scott Stoops
Incorrect. The tpa was an agreement. They had say, and when it was violated, they had recourse. It was ineffective and violated repeatedly. The outcome wasn't as I would have hoped, but to say their hands were tied is garbage.
On the subject of collusion of calpa and cal leadership, I agree. Jp and brucia hurt the entire airline but more tragically the cal side more than most realize or are willing to accept.
On the subject of collusion of calpa and cal leadership, I agree. Jp and brucia hurt the entire airline but more tragically the cal side more than most realize or are willing to accept.
The UALALPA MEC had hoped for a DL/NW type merger. The failure of the TPA, JCBA and ISL was the inability of the UALALPA MEC to convince CALALPA MEC to break away from JS's coat-tails and work for the common good of the combined pilot group. This discussion is the direct result of the that failure around 6 years after the fact.
05-02-2016, 03:12 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,253
Originally Posted by Scott Stoops
Incorrect. The tpa was an agreement. They had say, and when it was violated, they had recourse. It was ineffective and violated repeatedly. The outcome wasn't as I would have hoped, but to say their hands were tied is garbage.
On the subject of collusion of calpa and cal leadership, I agree. Jp and brucia hurt the entire airline but more tragically the cal side more than most realize or are willing to accept.
On the subject of collusion of calpa and cal leadership, I agree. Jp and brucia hurt the entire airline but more tragically the cal side more than most realize or are willing to accept.
05-02-2016, 03:31 PM
#60
UCH Pilot
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: 787
Posts: 776
Originally Posted by AllenAllert
My guess is they felt by stacking the CAL side with Captains it would have and ultimate impact on the SLI and control of the combined Union.
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