Flybynight101

I’m so sick of hearing this. By the time we negotiate, everyone will be ahead of us. Why can’t we ever lead the charge? Why do we always sit back and wait for the tide to rise? I don’t want to hear “UPS is a different animal” either.

jetlaggy

UPS led for years. Where were you?

Flybynight101

I’m simply saying resting on our laurels is going to bite us sooner or later. Pounding our chest and saying look at all the great things we’ve done in the past isn’t a recipe for future success.

edit* this isn’t an attack on the EB. It’s pointing out the sentiment some people have about how to move forward in the upcoming negotiations.

tnkrdrvr

I don’t think we were resting on our laurels. We were the only group getting raises during the pandemic. That said, we essentially have been treading water since the 2016 contract. The extensions merely prevented us from falling as far behind in compensation as FedEx has. Narrow body FO pay at Delta has caught up with our our FO rates. Their narrow body Capt rates are almost up with our Capt rates. We are definitely working at a discount now compared to the new “industry standard” being set by the current wave of legacy contracts.

18% DC with cash over cap does not equal the same amount of tax advantaged savings as we are getting, but it’s getting closer and the cash over cap effectively grows the discount in our pay rates.

My opinion is that the company played the pandemic era like a fiddle. The EB had a relatively weak hand and played it ok. The Teamsters were able to make dramatic compensation gains (Wall Street is worried, which means they were good) due to the credible threat of a strike. I believe we will have to walk down the much longer path to a strike under the RLA if we are to top the legacy pay rates and make satisfactory retirement gains.

Sorry for the book

Swedish Blender

While true, it wasn’t necessarily because of signed contracts.

It had more to do with post 9/11 bankruptcies at the legacies. UPS didn’t raise the bar, they just didn’t get chopped off at the knees and ended up ahead by default.

Legacies are just now catching back up to their 2000 contracts.

jetlaggy

UPS held the bar steady…which I would consider leading …and vital to the overall industry…so the pax have something to shoot for and surpass…that is what we are witnessing….its all good.

tnkrdrvr

In the interest of getting the thread back on track: we are entering peak down captains by over 10% compared to last year. Obviously, it’s too late to back fill prior to peak. Do we think that management plans to go long term “light” on captains or will we see a system bid early next year to rebalance manning? My personal expectation is a June 2024 bid that replaces most, but not all, of the retirees. Any factors I’m not aware of?

UPSFO4LIFE

We are not light captains per UPS. We are operating less flights, and yes, less flights for peak, so we basically just had the realignment bid with the VTP We will see how it works out, but I don’t see any real big system bid coming up. Look at all the LCO lines this bid and see how many 757 Captains are not being used very much is a sign that we are currently overstaffed.

mrvmo

Yes, unfortunately with the reduction in Captains those "nice" LCO lines are prolly gone also.

MD11Simnerd

One of our guys that produces the monthly seniority list put a projected November list together. That list had 1391 Captains and 1796 First officers. That is a significant imbalance in staffing and UPS feels they can get through Peak as well as into the new year with the 1391 Captains. Elephant in the room......