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09-28-2023, 06:12 AM

#81

Joachim

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Joined APC: Jan 2007

Posts: 747

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD11Simnerd

One of our guys that produces the monthly seniority list put a projected November list together. That list had 1391 Captains and 1796 First officers. That is a significant imbalance in staffing and UPS feels they can get through Peak as well as into the new year with the 1391 Captains. Elephant in the room......

Forgive me if I’m stating the obvious but it should be expected to have more FO’s than Captains due to augmented and double crews.

09-28-2023, 10:18 AM

#82

UPSFO4LIFE

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Joined APC: May 2006

Position: DC-8 756/767

Posts: 1,144

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD11Simnerd

We are way overstaffed, how peak works out is anyone’s guess, but look at the the VLOA awards. 3 Captains awarded and the rest FO’s, so UPS feels we have the right amount of Captains, and still too many FO’s. Don’t shoot the messenger, but I think many folks here are going to be surprised in the block hour cuts coming in January.

09-28-2023, 03:36 PM

#83

MD11Simnerd

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Position: MD-11 Guru

Posts: 205

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joachim

Forgive me if I’m stating the obvious but it should be expected to have more FO’s than Captains due to augmented and double crews.

400 more??

09-28-2023, 04:08 PM

#84

BoilerUP

The NeverEnding Story

Joined APC: Sep 2005

Posts: 7,518

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD11Simnerd

400 more??

Ballpark of 360 more FOs than CPTs in Nov 2022.

09-28-2023, 04:31 PM

#85

jetlaggy

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Joined APC: Aug 2005

Position: 757

Posts: 1,358

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoilerUP

Ballpark of 360 more FOs than CPTs in Nov 2022.

Upgrade 50 FOs and bam…down to 260

09-28-2023, 05:52 PM

#86

CardboardCutout

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Joined APC: May 2018

Posts: 690

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD11Simnerd

I agree that this is worrying, esp. as they decided to allow further "incentivized retirements" than originally advertised. But, while it's worrying, this is UPS. I think it's entirely possible that they plan to get through a significant, but short-lived, downturn by throwing open the open-time/JA sluice gates once more, and letting all of those C/As who were either too young or not quite senior enough to get the VTP to feather their nests the old-fashioned way.

09-28-2023, 06:05 PM

#87

MD11Simnerd

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Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: MD-11 Guru

Posts: 205

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoilerUP

Ballpark of 360 more FOs than CPTs in Nov 2022.

While the 360 number in November 2022 may be correct, that was a time of significant hiring. Since then there have been vacancy bids realigning staffing. There will be 405 more FOs from the list the individual that publishes the monthly seniority list for November 2023. If UPS felt the airline was overstaffed and offered VTP, then what is the follow on plan? Leave the airline as is? Big vacancy bid? Other?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetlaggy

Upgrade 50 FOs and bam…down to 260

I don't understand the math there. If you upgrade 50 FOs and go with Boiler's numbers, that is 50 less FOs (310)

09-28-2023, 11:55 PM

#88

FTv3

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Joined APC: May 2018

Posts: 777

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetlaggy

Upgrade 50 FOs and bam…down to 260

Or maybe we are FO heavy in anticipation of furlough 2.0…?

UPS staffs for peak. We heard that straight from the horse’s mouth earlier this year.

09-29-2023, 03:41 AM

#89

flyguy23

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Joined APC: Jul 2007

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Quote:

Originally Posted by FTv3

Or maybe we are FO heavy in anticipation of furlough 2.0…?

UPS staffs for peak. We heard that straight from the horse’s mouth earlier this year.

If you look at the cost savings associated with VTP, I’d be floored if there is a furlough. Another round of VTP with upgrades to balance things seems far more likely.

09-29-2023, 04:23 AM

#90

airplanes

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Joined APC: May 2022

Posts: 98

If they had far more applicants than they needed for the VTP wouldn’t they just let even more expensive captains leave. They got to pick exactly how many people left. Why would they then furlough? Why allow only 10 FOs to VTP?