Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,722
Why any concessions? Improvements or status quo in all sections. Do you think Delta's Board of Directors in the compensation committee are going to ask RA for a single concession in his contract? No, he's going to be backing a Brink's truck up to the G.O. on Virginia Ave.
Call or write your reps now and tell them, no concessions!
Call or write your reps now and tell them, no concessions!
But we can't even hope for 2004 pay rates, that would just be 'unreasonable', right?
And while were on that subject, just exactly WHERE did the Billions Delta is making now, come from?
In LOA's 46 and 51 combined, the Delta (south) pilots gave the company roughly $1.3 Billion per year in concessions, many of which are still in effect today (pay rate cuts and PBS manning efficiencies to name just two)
And the Delta Pilot DB plan was underfunded by a little over $4Billlion when the company flushed it.
So add those two events (pay cuts and DB funding) for the past 11 years and what do you get?
HUGE Profits!
So what are they going to do with all of OUR money?
Pat yourselves on the back boys, that's YOUR money they took 11 years ago, and continue to take every two weeks. Now they are going to use it to buy back $6 Billion in stock and pay themselves a 50% increase in dividends!
I don't want to hang my hat on anything. I want a TA that we can all vote for, a TA that lacks a bunch of concessions.
But if it is lacking - no rush. If we don't get the pay bumps which as a few pointed out might not happen, we still should be looking at major profit sharing increases.
Anyway - I want to be able to vote yes. I voted yes on C-2012 because it met my minimums. Well with record profits and a recently announced $5 Billion stock buyback my minimums are a lot higher.
I will look at the deal as a whole and make a decision as I expect most will do.
Scoop
But if it is lacking - no rush. If we don't get the pay bumps which as a few pointed out might not happen, we still should be looking at major profit sharing increases.
Anyway - I want to be able to vote yes. I voted yes on C-2012 because it met my minimums. Well with record profits and a recently announced $5 Billion stock buyback my minimums are a lot higher.
I will look at the deal as a whole and make a decision as I expect most will do.
Scoop
I'm willing to give up pay % for other QOL items like more vacation, fully paid medical insurance, better sick leave - like maybe lets tack on some PTO days in there! Retiree healthcare, increases to retirement plans. Any tax advantaged pay like perhaps stock options in lieu of pay. And the sooner, the better. The clock is ticking as you approach retirement age. Which A LOT of us are.
I understand these are all senior "old guy" wishes. Young guys with 25 or 30 years to go just want more money, and they are willing to hold out for it.
Im not talking about gutting anything. I've never really seen a better negotiating environment than we have now. The stockholders, executives, and other employees have been well taken care of. It's our turn now and I think we will do well if we can avoid being too confrontational and greedy.
But some just want a fight. They want payback, vengeance, resentments to settle. They've never seen a better environment than this for that now too. I just think that is foolish.
I understand these are all senior "old guy" wishes. Young guys with 25 or 30 years to go just want more money, and they are willing to hold out for it.
Im not talking about gutting anything. I've never really seen a better negotiating environment than we have now. The stockholders, executives, and other employees have been well taken care of. It's our turn now and I think we will do well if we can avoid being too confrontational and greedy.
But some just want a fight. They want payback, vengeance, resentments to settle. They've never seen a better environment than this for that now too. I just think that is foolish.
Not only are RA, Ed and the rest of the boys at the top NOT going to grant ANY concessions to themselves, they are also increasing the dividend by 50%! Remember, THEY own hundreds of thousands of shares of Delta Stock, so in effect, they just gave themselves a 50% raise!
But we can't even hope for 2004 pay rates, that would just be 'unreasonable', right?
And while were on that subject, just exactly WHERE did the Billions Delta is making now, come from?
In LOA's 46 and 51 combined, the Delta (south) pilots gave the company roughly $1.3 Billion per year in concessions, many of which are still in effect today (pay rate cuts and PBS manning efficiencies to name just two)
And the Delta Pilot DB plan was underfunded by a little over $4Billlion when the company flushed it.
So add those two events (pay cuts and DB funding) for the past 11 years and what do you get?
HUGE Profits!
So what are they going to do with all of OUR money?
Pat yourselves on the back boys, that's YOUR money they took 11 years ago, and continue to take every two weeks. Now they are going to use it to buy back $6 Billion in stock and pay themselves a 50% increase in dividends!
But we can't even hope for 2004 pay rates, that would just be 'unreasonable', right?
And while were on that subject, just exactly WHERE did the Billions Delta is making now, come from?
In LOA's 46 and 51 combined, the Delta (south) pilots gave the company roughly $1.3 Billion per year in concessions, many of which are still in effect today (pay rate cuts and PBS manning efficiencies to name just two)
And the Delta Pilot DB plan was underfunded by a little over $4Billlion when the company flushed it.
So add those two events (pay cuts and DB funding) for the past 11 years and what do you get?
HUGE Profits!
So what are they going to do with all of OUR money?
Pat yourselves on the back boys, that's YOUR money they took 11 years ago, and continue to take every two weeks. Now they are going to use it to buy back $6 Billion in stock and pay themselves a 50% increase in dividends!
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
Well I don't disagree with any of that really, gloopy. I don't give credence to any rumors are out there, so if they include deep concessions that puzzles me.
I think it is reasonable to expect a good contract ahead, with plenty of gains all around. I don't see the rationale at all for going backwards on any part of our contract considering the current economic and pattern bargaining environment.
Im just saying I'd take double and triples rather than holding out for the dubious home run. That seems reasonable. RBIs score the same as homers.
I think it is reasonable to expect a good contract ahead, with plenty of gains all around. I don't see the rationale at all for going backwards on any part of our contract considering the current economic and pattern bargaining environment.
Im just saying I'd take double and triples rather than holding out for the dubious home run. That seems reasonable. RBIs score the same as homers.
Huzzah!
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,722
He'll be saying the exact same things he said after C2012, Capacity Restraint (parking 747's) , Fleet Up Gage (more 76 seat RJ's), Changes to Profit Sharing to cover raises, etc.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
BTW, you mentioned a very high W2 on the 717, and I can only guess that's the result of a lot of green. Cool, good for you. But what if we got a quick "raise" but the company was allowed to spread existing monthly reserves over the weekends and holidays effectively decimating green slip awards? What if the effect of that was a 50K or more pay cut for you, even though it involved a nice on paper TVM raise? Most pilots aren't green all month anyway, and the majority probably never gets more than one or two a year if that. I bet you wouldn't like that would you? There is no need for concessions in this environment. None. Its better work through the NMB for years than to eat big concessions now, especially scope work rules and sick time and PS reductions.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
The very reason there are concessions this time, is found in C2012 and at the subsequent Investor's Conference. They are going to ask RA about 'Cost Control' going forward. RA wants to once again be able to tell them he has just signed another Cost Neutral contract.
He'll be saying the exact same things he said after C2012, Capacity Restraint (parking 747's) , Fleet Up Gage (more 76 seat RJ's), Changes to Profit Sharing to cover raises, etc.
He'll be saying the exact same things he said after C2012, Capacity Restraint (parking 747's) , Fleet Up Gage (more 76 seat RJ's), Changes to Profit Sharing to cover raises, etc.
Those same analcyst morons will also be wanting us to yield to the LCC capacity barfers and the dual subsidized ME3. Tough. Not our concern to try and please them. Let them have a hissy fit. If they do, we will shore up our stock even more in the long term.
They still teach long term in B-school, don't they? Who cares though, its not our concern. NO CONCESSIONS THIS TIME!
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Cool. We're back to discussing philosophical viewpoints, and arguing about what people want the TA to look like, not the latest politically motivated rumor/leak. Seems like APC rights itself from all sorts of weird excesses.
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,722
Thinking about the rumored lost LCA trips for F/O's, I'm wondering if the company has figured out a way to stop Rolling Thunder too. Seems with all the upcoming hiring/training, reserve utilization is going to be an issue, I can't believe they haven't figured out a way to stop it already...but I have no doubt they are looking at it. I just hope we don't see that in a last minute T/A too!
(and no, I'm not trying to start that rumor, the Rolling Thunder thought just occurred to me after reading Gloopy's post above about manning.)
(and no, I'm not trying to start that rumor, the Rolling Thunder thought just occurred to me after reading Gloopy's post above about manning.)
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