idlethrust

This guy gets it

Omnislash

There absolutely is. The scale goes up 2% and then another 1% 18 months later. You would get the value of that additional pay every year going forward on top of whatever is negotiated in the future.

Omnislash

I'm not referring to the 1.5% at all. We will get another 3% in the next 18 months. For easy math and not dealing with the compounding factor or annual longevity increase, a pilot making $100,000 a year will get an additional $3,000. That pilot will get that $3,000 every year going forward because the hourly rate went up one time by 3%. That is real money and not BS.

Omnislash

Get's what? No one get's your arguments because they are just angry thoughts that are never backed up by any facts.

FollowMe

Facts.

If you ratify the TA Appleton is done offering.

If you ratify the TA you send a message to Appleton that time plus minuscule increases is acceptable to the pilot group.

If you ratify the TA you have demonstrated to the NMB what your threshold for “gains” is when next you head to the table.

Management knows how to play the long game...do you?

iceman21

Exactly! I don't want to wait another 2 years to get a similar agreement put in front of me because we lowered the bar this time around for the sake of 3% (over 18 months btw). The others are right it is a pittance compared to what we should get and just taking the money because it's there is akin to stepping over a $100 bill because you spotted the $20 bill first.

PLAY THE LONG GAME... the company certainly will.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Omnislash

What you claim are facts are simply your beliefs and far from facts.

Do you understand that if we don't ratify the TA that management could also be done offering, and in fact, could withdraw the current offer?

If you don't ratify the TA, you send a message to Appleton that they get to keep the millions of dollars that they are offering us in increases this time around.

If you don't ratify the TA, the NMB may believe that we are unreasonable and may not even offer us a chance to bargain for a long time?

Management has been forced to bargain to what the NMB thinks is fair. The NMB isn't suddenly going to believe that the company needs to give us 30% raises. As for the long game, I've been here for all 3 TAs and haven't seen giant raises in any of the TAs following an unsuccessful ratification. That's just not how it works. What makes you think that by saying ”no,” the company has to automatically increase their offer? I agree that we should be offered more, but that doesn't mean that we will be or are even required to be offered anything more.

Omnislash

If you wait another 2 years, you will be lucky to have the same offer put in front of you. At that point, you've also lost the time value of the money being offered now. What bar do you think is being lowered? I agree that we should get more but saying "no" does not guarantee a higher offer or even any offer the next time around. 3% over 18 months isn't as sexy as what some of the other airlines have gotten, but our contract has a lot of valuable things outside of pay rates that those pilots wish they could have. That 3% will start putting about $3500 more into my paycheck every year going forward by taking the deal and allow us a higher starting point to negotiate again in a couple years. Dragging this out, or "playing the long game" as you say, just ensures more time before we start making a higher wage and possibly eliminates any increase anytime soon.

iceman21

The equation is pretty simple if you ask me. UA has dangled a carrot in front of AWAC in the form of more flying, however, that means we need more bodies. To the tune of another 600. There were 2 people in there 20s in my INDOC class. The rest of us (10) were above 35 to age 57. The class after mine was a bit younger, I'd say avg age of the class was 36.

In order to hire the numbers we need to hire to attain the flying UA wants to give us we are going to have offer more money to those we want to attract. A 3% raise over 18 mo is not the answer.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

DarkSideMoon

United just opened the flood gates with aviate. They’re going to offer college seniors a job at United through working at a regional. ZW will have all the staff they could want within a year or two.