My takeaway from Flight Path / V1
#71
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 70
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Does it really matter how many seats are on RJ’s? I say this because its my belief that there will be no Regional airlines in the US in 10 years. We will be flying these aircraft or the flight will just be done with mainline aircraft. The top 5 airlines by size have approximately a combined 54,769 pilots, 23,285 of who are set to retire at age 65 during that 10 year period. According to numbers found here at airline pilot central there are approximately 20,472 current regional pilots. Those numbers are not sustainable for the majors and definitely not for the regionals. These numbers don’t take into account the other majors retirements, military pilots, or the pilots flying corporate. I want scope and will vote no on any contract that does not have industry standard scope. However it is my overall belief that there will be no more regionals in 10 years.
#72
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 683
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If I had a nickel every time I heard this...The regionals will be alive and well in 10 years. You talk as if there are going to no more pilots, ever. The majors have a huge stake in keeping the regionals going and aren't going to let them go away. Ab initio anyone? It's possible for there to be some consolidation of regional airlines in the future and they possibly could become smaller. Going away? Not in anyone career on this board.
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1,285
Likes: 0
From: 175 CA
Does it really matter how many seats are on RJ’s? I say this because its my belief that there will be no Regional airlines in the US in 10 years. We will be flying these aircraft or the flight will just be done with mainline aircraft. The top 5 airlines by size have approximately a combined 54,769 pilots, 23,285 of who are set to retire at age 65 during that 10 year period. According to numbers found here at airline pilot central there are approximately 20,472 current regional pilots. Those numbers are not sustainable for the majors and definitely not for the regionals. These numbers don’t take into account the other majors retirements, military pilots, or the pilots flying corporate. I want scope and will vote no on any contract that does not have industry standard scope. However it is my overall belief that there will be no more regionals in 10 years.
More than 1000 CFI's a year hit the magic 1500 hrs. 1000 pilots a year coming out of the military, another 500 coming out of corporate/135.. another 500 coming from overseas or out of the woodwork (non flying jobs).
The regionals will always exist.
#74
1,000 CFI + 1,000 exMil + 500 Corp/135 + 500 Overseas/Out of the Woodwork = 3,000 total supply of pilots each year.
In 2018, the total hiring by the major airlines, LCCs, and major cargo was 4,606.
In 2013, just five years ago, the total hiring was only 1,084.
http://fapa.aero/hiringhistory.asp
Boeing has forecast the US needs averaging 5,000 to 6,000 pilots per year over the next 20 years.
Hmmmm....
Last edited by TransWorld; 01-31-2019 at 04:49 PM.
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
From: GearBbychoice
I’ll play your game.
1,000 CFI + 1,000 exMil + 500 Corp/135 + 500 Overseas/Out of the Woodwork = 3,000 total supply of pilots each year.
In 2018, the total hiring by the major airlines, LCCs, and major cargo was 4,606.
In 2013, just five years ago, the total hiring was only 1,084.
FAPA.aero | Pilot Hiring History - All Time
Boeing has forecast the US needs averaging 5,000 to 6,000 pilots per year over the next 20 years.
Hmmmm....
1,000 CFI + 1,000 exMil + 500 Corp/135 + 500 Overseas/Out of the Woodwork = 3,000 total supply of pilots each year.
In 2018, the total hiring by the major airlines, LCCs, and major cargo was 4,606.
In 2013, just five years ago, the total hiring was only 1,084.
FAPA.aero | Pilot Hiring History - All Time
Boeing has forecast the US needs averaging 5,000 to 6,000 pilots per year over the next 20 years.
Hmmmm....
#76
So, the facts/numbers actually do NOT support your position and the cry is “fake news”? Really? To quote the main champion of that pathetic technique ... “Sad...”
#77
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
From: GearBbychoice
Okay with Boeing forecasting a need of 5,000-6,000 pilots a year over the next 20 years. Where do you suppose they are going to come from?
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
The majors can fix the regional pilot shortage in two years if they wanted to. All it takes is money. How many kids would come out of the woodwork if they were offered free school/training/money to build time? Is 200k a lot of money for the majors to invest for a pilot? I don't think so.
The only reason they haven't is because they haven't had to yet. I'm guessing they'll wait until they can get the 1500 hr rule repealed or lowered. It will only get lowered if the public starts to lose service due to the pilot shortage.
The only reason they haven't is because they haven't had to yet. I'm guessing they'll wait until they can get the 1500 hr rule repealed or lowered. It will only get lowered if the public starts to lose service due to the pilot shortage.
#79
My point exactly. And some think that estimate is too low, there are others calling for greater demand. The stated “flow” from CFIs/military/“other” not near enough. Facts show demand will far outstrip what we are doing now.
I don’t know what the future will bring, but it will mean change. Big demographic trends change paradigms and business models. Better to plan accordingly. People who say “it’s been this way for X, it’ll always be this way” are whistling past the graveyard.
#80
My post was addressing the proposition that 2,000 pilots coming up assures “the regionals will always exist.” Um, no...that’s just math.
Certainly it is true any “shortage” is a function of economics—make it a better value proposition and more people will take it on as a career. But if it becomes too expensive, someone will try to automate it...which is also happening.
The only certainty is there is NO other “always” ... besides change. And maybe that someone on APC will always have an opposing viewpoint.
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