EskimoJoe

Because it’s time to put on the big boy pants and understand how all of this works. You can be ****ed about the RLA process all you want. It will change nothing. I know miserable pilots at every airline. It seems like many of you “usual suspects” is waiting around for a publically traded company to give your life meaning and satisfaction. If one is waiting for an airline to make them happy, you’ll be waiting a long FN time.

Aside from paying union dues, staying informed, picketing when asked to, and voting when the time comes. There’s nothing else we, as a group, can do legally. Ask the APA what happened when they attempted self help on their own. Every single Airline management has abused the RLA process. Every single one and it’s been going on for decades. You guys act like other pilot groups never had to deal with the slow process of section 6. You’re not. Not in the slightest.

EskimoJoe

because that’s the way the pilot market is at THIS POINT IN TIME. Things change and evolve. Sure people are leaving now. They’re only leaving because they can. Post 9-11 new hire classes had furloughed pilots from every airline. Most stayed as recall took years. Believe me, in March of 2002, thousands of established pilots would have given the right arm to work here. The longer you’re in this business, the more sense this will make.

MinRest

Wait, so the person who just simply voted no for decades is going to tell us all how this works? Hate to break it to you, but we don't listen to the losers when we ask how to win a war....

The long time AS pilots have proven that they never had what it takes to get the job done. Why would we listen to you on what it takes to be successful? Your playbook is irrelevant.

noodle

Joe seems to admit we are behind while knowing exactly how things work. Insinuating that we have virtually no influence on the process because of the RLA. I guess we are just unlucky then and those other pilot groups have lucky horse shoes stuck up their a**es.

I agree with Joe that this horrendous contract shouldn’t ruin your life outside of work. However, I vehemently disagree with this assertion that we are all just complainers and don’t know how things work while sitting in our diapers. I hope Joe is in the minority and benefits from the rest of our immature whining.

EskimoJoe

Ha! Ok Jr. make up your own Railway Labor Act.

MinRest

Sounds like you already did! I guess no gains have ever been made at any other ALPA carriers that comply with the RLA. Tell me, how's third step trades going so far? Keep voting no boomer, let me know if the third decade's the charm!

av8or

If that’s the extent of what non job action things you think you can do to help highlight just basic failures…. Then I’m at a loss for words. Spoken as someone intimately familiar with the RLA, who’s not looking to Alaska to provide ANY form of significance, but also, doesn’t intend on doing everything LEGALLY within my power to secure a market rate contract. There’s a reason we’re losing pilots, woefully understaffed, but not cancelling flights. Wonder why THAT is? 🤔

ShyGuy

The reality is, a lot of the APC angry crowd here seem to be ex-VX. I get it, we lost an east coast base, some of us had to move across the country or do transcon commutes, lost PBS, better schedules, QOL, etc. That said, we brought no contract. I’m not gonna hash out the arbitrator’s SLI reasoning, but go read it again. We were non-union until about 9 months before purchase date and at the time had no CBA. We had a Work Rule Book which doesn’t mean anything. It is what it is and here we are today. What I’m observing now is an “us versus them” mentality, of the new school versus old school. I’m seeing people punching down on the senior crowd for post Kasher actions and contracts.

OR

We could choose to stop punching down on each other, be united, support one another, and STOP this blame game on APC that does nothing except create animosity. If management reads this forums, they must be laughing at the pilots turning against one another and the constant bickering.

av8or

😂😂😂 Yeah, your assumptions about how long I, and many others part of this pilot group have “been in this business” are telling.

We’re aren’t negotiating in post 9/11 2002. We aren’t even negotiating in 2008-2012. We are negotiating during the biggest pilot shortage since the 60’s. If you can’t put a market rate contract together in THIS market, then you literally NEVER will. Ever…. As in ever ever. But, I get that it might cost senior guys more in the short term. Always does. And I get that you probably would just as soon not make any sacrifice other than vote “no”. Thankfully, even in our senior ranks, you are outnumbered, so, if the rest of us are unified, we’ll do it without you.

av8or

making up their own RLA….. Wow, I wasn’t aware that’s how they got better contracts at us at nearly EVERY other carrier…. And now add Sun Country to the list. You haven’t taken the field yet and you’ve already conceded a loss.