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Old 06-08-2017, 09:17 PM   #2371  
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Originally Posted by AltoCumulus View Post
Annual bonus has been about 7ish percent


That's pathetic. VX paid us 12%.
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Old 06-08-2017, 11:44 PM   #2372  
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So according to Pulse Forbes article, the revenue was 5.9 billion last year.. (who knows how much it actually was)
-we are paid on average around 35%-45% less across the board on pay scale...
-have an incredibly subpar retirement plan..
-a management group that "continues to show they are not serious about finding an equitable contract"
-a management group that preaches for us to be "remarkable" and "do the right thing" yet are total hypocrites when it comes to putting these values into practice with any employee group here

AND NOW.....our first year pilots are making less than a 1000 hour restricted ATP 21 year old kid over at horizon whose main expenses are beer and the vaseline

Very hard and getting harder to resist the urge to get incredibly bitter towards this company. I would like to stay here for my career...but as long as I am a first officer, which appears to be quite a long time here at this "growing airline ha, " I will continue to update my apps monthly and take the first offer that comes. 3rd year pay on like equipment at the real legacies surpasses earning potential for our highest FO pay scale. What a joke this place turned out to be.

To answer the OP's original question of "what can I expect to make on first year pay?"
The answer is... the realization that you have made a huge mistake and that you are no closer to be finished with your hunt for your life long career goal than you were at your regional before coming here. Oh and they'll pay you 54,000 to figure it out or whatever that guy above said.
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Old 06-09-2017, 04:25 AM   #2373  
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That's pathetic. VX paid us 12%.
You're just a bundle of joy aren't you. Everything you say is negative. It's actually really annoying. Please tell me you're trying your hardest to leave the AS/VX group.

AltoCumulus: Thanks for the bonus extra pay answer to my question.
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Old 06-09-2017, 05:30 AM   #2374  
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You call it negative, I call it true. No fake news here.
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Old 06-11-2017, 05:18 AM   #2375  
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Originally Posted by OCCP View Post
That's pathetic. VX paid us 12%.
Don't you need a PROFIT to get profit sharing? Being VX bled hundreds of millions of dollars over the vast majority of its short life, I'm not sure 12% of a negative number is all that impressive.
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Old 06-11-2017, 07:46 AM   #2376  
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That was for last year. You're right that it's not too impressive but neither is yours. Some of you guys act like alaska's contract is the holy grail of contracts.

VX work rules are poor and well below some regionals.

AS contrast is poor and below several regionals.

We are both in the gutter. Stop acting like you're high and mighty.
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Old 06-11-2017, 08:32 AM   #2377  
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I'm a newbe on second year pay so I'll chime in. My first year, I made roughly $56k without counting the bonus, which is less than what my regional job pays first year. Pathetic if you ask me! I don't fly extra and I don't pick up on my days off because I value my time off. Oh btw, I wouldn't rely on bonus in the future since Angle Lake has made it impossible to achieve the goal. PBP is a joke here.

I'm on my way out. Alaska was my dream job ever since I started flying. After spending over a year here, I quickly realized that I've made a big mistake and I'm not alone. Good majority of my peers are planning on leaving. I have even heard of 5+ year FOs bailing. It literally breaks my heart but I must do what benefits me and my family. Living in the PNW was luring for me with flying for Alaska but there are other options which offer the same thing with a far superior package and a promising future. For the aspiring Alaska pilots, here are some pros and cons.

Pros:
1. Great pilot group. Almost everyone whom I flew with were great to spend time with. With a exception of a few bad apples, they are true professionals and good dudes & ladies to hang out with.
2. Training department and the AQP program is well run and organized. They'll get you through the program. Just keep a good attitude and smile a lot. There are always a couple of douche instructors but they are far and a few in between. Mostly standup guys. Most of you will not have any problems, especially with thousands of turbine hours. I also heard that the company will be covering hotel for hew hires.
3. Layovers. Even as a junior pilot, you can get some cool layovers like Hawaii and Mexico. However, be prepared to fly your share of allnighters/redeyes and work on the weekends. I only sat reserve for 6 months (some by choice) but if you really want a line, even a crappy one, the odds are in your favor.

Cons:
1. Poor pay, subpar 401K for a legacy, and zero job protection. Pay and 401K will come up as a result of the JCBA and the question is how much. Historically and talking with the people in the know, don't expect to get industry leading here at Alaska. This management will never agree to that hence the arbitration scenario becoming more realistic.
2. Equipment. Mostly newer jets but you'll most likely not fly anything other than the 737 & Airbus 320/321. I'm okay with that but again, think pay.
3. Scheduling tool-Crew Access. Next to pay, lack of scope, and 401k, this is my biggest point of contention. PBS isn't on the property yet. I'm not a PBS fan and let me just say that PBS in the hands of this management group can/will be a nightmare for the pilot group. I'll just leave it at that. Crew Access is the newly implemented scheduling program and it sucks ***! The person who implemented this software should be taken out and stoned to death. In conjunction with sucky work rule language and this pos, your QOL will suffer big time. You will not be able to trade out of your trips unless they have enough reserve coverage, which they never do. Crew Access is like going back to cassette tapes from streaming music. The regional I used to work for had waaaay better work rules and scheduling tools than this place! Truly pathetic.
4. Management. All management seem to go the same school and they are who they are. Without bashing them too harshly, I find them petty, extremely cheap, and vindictive. They put on a fake smile and tell you how much they love their employees but their actions say otherwise. Narcissism at its best.
5. Chief Pilot program. Aren't Chief Pilots someone, we as pilots, look up to? Are they not mentors who are supposed to be pilot advocates? I guess it's true that our system chief pilot, JH, used to be our MEC at one point. How can that be? Isn't there some ALPA bylaw which prevents a union officer, especially the MEC, from becoming management? I've kept under the radar but I know of a few pilots who've had first hand experience dealing with some our CPs/JH and they are not good. As a captain whom I deeply respect once told me, CP stands for Cheesedick Punisher. With the exception of one or two CPs, these guys garner NO respect from the pilot group. They are known as company puppets who carry out Gestapo marching orders on the pilot group.
6. Crew Scheduling. Everyone I've dealt with in crew scheduling were very pleasant and nice over the phone, as they bent you over. I understand they get their marching orders from JW and management so I'll cut them some slack. If they need to fill a seat, they will violate the contract in a nano second. Fly & grieve is one of the silliest things I've ever heard. Basically, the company can tell you a complete lie and violate your contractual rights and you'll have no recourse but if the table was turned and you violate one of their rules, it's grounds for termination. Yup, pretty messed up if you ask me. There are over 200 grievances that they have yet to address; some are over a year or more old.
7. SLI. This will get ugly. IMO, Alaska pilots have way more to lose than Virgin pilots. Most of the Virgin folks are standup guys but let's face it, they got a big windfall. I'll probably catch some flak from Virgin pilots but facts are facts. I'll just leave the SLI discussion at that.
8. Union. Pretty weak and not very cohesive. Contract compliance guys are worthless. They might as well be company moles. I spoke with them on a few contract issues when I was getting screwed by crew scheduling and they sided with the company on every subject matter. Perhaps it's the poorly written contract but I knew had a valid case. Go figure. Ladies & gentlemen, our up and coming future management pilots! There are also ex-union officers flying premium trips while the company is negotiating in bad faith. Seriously? I know, I have flown with a few on their premium trips. Lead by example? Not here.
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Old 06-11-2017, 08:54 AM   #2378  
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Outstanding post, RJ.

Good luck with your future endeavors. Glad you're in a position where you can make a change.
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Old 06-11-2017, 09:08 AM   #2379  
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Well said, RJ. You could add their vaunted "progressive discipline" is a joke. Screw up just once and you're out.
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:27 AM   #2380  
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For those of you interested in Alaska do know that regardless of what has been posted here this still is a solid airline with a very bright future ahead of it. Negotiations at any carrier get everyone riled up and emotions are definitely high, especially right now as we get closer to a potential arbitration scenario. Our contract will be settled this Fall and the odds are strong that our pay will be brought in line or "in the ball park" with our industry peers. If it doesn't then every Alaska pilot will have a very valid reason to seek to continue their career elsewhere if they so choose.

Classes resume in July and will run every two weeks through the end of the year. Best of luck to everyone waiting for that call!
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