EskimoJoe

Exactly. This is why Legacy Alaska Pilots better think long and hard about ratifying any JCBA. Is a couple of bucks worth it?

EskimoJoe

It is B.S.! Absolute B.S. But don't be shocked when it happens.

Ratify a JCBA and Everyone gets what they want and the AS pilots get screwed.

svergin

After our SLI the 1st vacancy bid was for about 80 737 Captains, and virtually every one of them was a legacy United FO who wasn't able to hold Captain previously. Those were previously CAL pilot jobs that they just walked in and took. I think a VX pilot who's on the verge of being a Captain, and then gets 200-300 AS FO's placed ahead of him and bid Airbus Captain is going to be pretty upset someone else took his job. Handing a bunch of Airbus Captain seats to AS FOs would be a windfall using DOH or anything close to it.

PokerPilot007

We can speculate and debate this for the next 18 months, but in the end it will be pretty close to "relative" seniority for your seat with probably a small increase for AS pilots due to longevity. No one gets harmed with their relative seniority being honored.

- If your in the top 15% at AS your staying there... Period!
- If your in top 15% of VA, your probably staying pretty close to there on the new list... Period!

Get over DOH! It won't be used! There is NO windfall with relative seniority for either side! I'm near the top of FO's at VX, and once we upgrade the next 60 CA's later this year for the A321's coming in January, I'll be close to the number 1 FO at VX. Should I go backwards and have my upgrade extending out 2-3 more years? I didn't ask for the merger! We will all sacrifice something and have all paid our dues!

I see this as a win-win for all pilots! We are a stronger airline with an exciting future. We MUST stay unified and show management we are not going to take anything less than our peers at United, SW, Delta and American! Not one penny less! The VX pilots are unified and will stand with AS pilots and get what we ALL deserve!

EskimoJoe

Sorry. If this were a "Win/Win" Alaska Pilots would be happy about this merger. There isn't a single guy I've talked to that wants a thing to do with a VX merger over here.

PokerPilot007

Then "those" pilots are short sighted and not looking at the long term potential. Either way we can all embrace the merger or end up bitter legacy pilots.

GangtaMoose

two different things here packrat. your slotting of 2007 doh guys does not meet the third tenet of ALPA merger policy which is a fair and equitable result. you are correct career expectation only means narrowbody versus wide body and that is the same for both pilot groups. this tenet of the ALPA merger policy for us is negligible because its the same narrowbody. the second tenet is longevity and as i said before the alaska group has more longevity so in the SLI process they will get more of an advantage for it. the fair and equitable tenet will prevent what you want which is slotting the most senior virgin guy with the most junior anchorage captain hired 2007. that is not a fair nor an equitable result for a capt in the top 10% to be leveled at an alaska captain at the very bottom of the list. the other important point is no one at virgin demanded anything. i know little about the virgin #1 guy but hes a humble individual and in no way making demands or saying anything. no one is spewing that virgin guys from 2007 want to be next to Alaska guys from 1980. virgin is pretty quiet here. let the process play itself out. both committees will represent their pilots. the only childish and immature posts are from your side with the likes of eskimojoe saying dont even vote on a jcba so he can force our lists to be separate. what an absolute assinine and ignorant statement to make. the last thing we need is giving management the ability to whipsaw this new airline as two separate groups. we need a unified single voice. now let's first get a kick ass jcba before we bring the pitchforks for seniority discussions. the ball is in the pilot court with oil prices low and profits very high.

Packrat

You can look at long term potential because its more than likely you're a fairly young guy salivating at the idea of jumping over the seniority of guys who have 20 years on you.

How do you think they'll feel about bidding behind someone who got such a huge seniority windfall?

Remember this: The 1st tenet of ALPA Merger/Frag policy is NO WINDFALL GAINS in seniority. Relative seniority in this merger would be an ENORMOUS windfall for VX pilots.

PokerPilot007

First off I'm not a young guy salivating over anything. I probably have more experience than 80% of AS pilots. I have my 20 yr ALPA pin brother. I just chose to look at the possibilities of two great airlines merging to make a better future for all of us. As far as windfall, you seem to not understand the meaning of windfall. NO AS pilot or VX pilot will lose anything with relative seniority! The vast majority of VX pilots resigned their seniority at legacy carriers to stay at VX! I'm sorry you and your buddies chose to look at your DOH and believe it makes you more valuable than a VX pilot who worked just as hard and sacrificed just as much to make this a better place for all of us. We will be one list and people will be upset with the outcome. Those are the facts! You can either welcome your fellow brothers & sister with open arms or sulk in your seat and cry that you got screwed. There isn't a single VX pilot that won't be harmed by this merger, but 90%+ of us chose to see a better future for all of us. Looking forward to sharing a beer and the cockpit with you soon.

Mea25000

I think the point you are missing is every VX pilot would be very happy with relative seniority ( that's not hammered) and every AS pilot would be ready to burn this place to the ground. We didn't pay 2 million for that... We could have just got that without an attorney. When this is all said and done I am pretty sure we will all feel like we gave up a lot and well that will probably mean it was fair.