Allegiant Air
10-26-2016, 06:01 PM
#4531
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Left
Posts: 1,807
Originally Posted by ColdChicken
Delta MD-80 had flames shooting out while compressor stalling just a few days ago out of SGF...
Incident: Delta MD88 at Springfield on Oct 23rd 2016, engine compressor stall
Wonder if he and his family will pee their pants before boarding a Delta MD-80 now?
Incident: Delta MD88 at Springfield on Oct 23rd 2016, engine compressor stall
Wonder if he and his family will pee their pants before boarding a Delta MD-80 now?
10-26-2016, 06:37 PM
#4532
Kabuki Kool
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Position: fu3king.airline@Furlough. DNA
Posts: 447
Originally Posted by hindsight2020
My family doesn't fly G4 at any price. This isn't about fares, it's about an honest and educated assessment on the mx practices from an industry peer review POV. To each their own. When one of those paid-for maddogs fails to rotate again or the T-tail flies off, or a clapped out engine uncontains and kills a bunch of people, nobody on here can act like all of a sudden this is a surprise.
Lessons Learned
10-26-2016, 06:40 PM
#4533
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: FO
Posts: 88
Originally Posted by hindsight2020
That's one of the interesting things I did witness about the narrative on here regarding G4. The second the pay issue got ameliorated, the entire safety narrative subsided. Get real. I had a buddy who passed on employment offer at G4 circa the strike threat time in '15, and the scuttlebutt in the squadron was very much a sense that going to work for Allegiant while waiting for DL/UA/AA/SW to call was gambling with your tickets, and that the mx practices were a big threat to the operation outright, regardless of pilot relations and negotiations.
Are we to believe the mx practices and corporate culture of an agency with ValueJet'esque carbon copy behavior (almost identical in forensics, right down to the above average profit yields up to the crash event) changed polarity overnight just because the pilots are now content to idle in place versus the grievances two years ago? I don't buy that for one second. I believe you guys are going to be the next ValueJet and it will be a catalyst for yet another 1500 rule type of populist outcry, which will challenge some of the hiring dynamics we are currently seeing. Ironically enough, probably going to affect the regionals more than the majors. I'm not trying to be hyperbolic, I have no axe to grind against G4 from a pilot perspective (im not a regional guy, just a mil/civ hybrid), but from a safety practices standpoint G4 quacks like a duck, it's just a matter of time. Getting my hush money isn't enough for me to act like the mx discourse on this very forum circa 2014-2015 didn't happen. It's almost unbelievable how quickly the narrative changed on here. This place is an echo chamber.
My family doesn't fly G4 at any price. This isn't about fares, it's about an honest and educated assessment on the mx practices from an industry peer review POV. To each their own. When one of those paid-for maddogs fails to rotate again or the T-tail flies off, or a clapped out engine uncontains and kills a bunch of people, nobody on here can act like all of a sudden this is a surprise.
Are we to believe the mx practices and corporate culture of an agency with ValueJet'esque carbon copy behavior (almost identical in forensics, right down to the above average profit yields up to the crash event) changed polarity overnight just because the pilots are now content to idle in place versus the grievances two years ago? I don't buy that for one second. I believe you guys are going to be the next ValueJet and it will be a catalyst for yet another 1500 rule type of populist outcry, which will challenge some of the hiring dynamics we are currently seeing. Ironically enough, probably going to affect the regionals more than the majors. I'm not trying to be hyperbolic, I have no axe to grind against G4 from a pilot perspective (im not a regional guy, just a mil/civ hybrid), but from a safety practices standpoint G4 quacks like a duck, it's just a matter of time. Getting my hush money isn't enough for me to act like the mx discourse on this very forum circa 2014-2015 didn't happen. It's almost unbelievable how quickly the narrative changed on here. This place is an echo chamber.
My family doesn't fly G4 at any price. This isn't about fares, it's about an honest and educated assessment on the mx practices from an industry peer review POV. To each their own. When one of those paid-for maddogs fails to rotate again or the T-tail flies off, or a clapped out engine uncontains and kills a bunch of people, nobody on here can act like all of a sudden this is a surprise.
-Alex-
10-27-2016, 07:28 AM
#4537
Kabuki Kool
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Position: fu3king.airline@Furlough. DNA
Posts: 447
Originally Posted by hindsight2020
I had a buddy who passed on employment offer at G4 circa the strike threat time in '15, and the scuttlebutt in the squadron was very much a sense that going to work for Allegiant while waiting for DL/UA/AA/SW to call was gambling with your tickets, and that the mx practices were a big threat to the operation outright, regardless of pilot relations and negotiations.
What happens at sea… Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
10-27-2016, 08:09 AM
#4538
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 390
Originally Posted by smoothatFL410
Please.
Isn't it easy to anonymously throw stones.
American and Southwest have been fined several million dollars for their maintenance practices in the past. I think Southwest holds the record for FAA fines. Allegiant just went through the ringer earlier than scheduled by the FAA, LOOKING for a reason to hang them, and came out fairly clean with only VERY MINOR discrepancies noted, which were immediately corrected internally and to the respective employee groups to fix. This is why the FAA exists. To correct the behavior when a company starts cutting corners.
I'm fairly new to the company and also never flew the -80, but in my experience on the line, Allegiant's mx has been top notch. Unlike other airlines I have worked for, not a single pilot or mechanic, mx control or anyone else has even insinuated on carrying a write-up or doing anything illegit. Any discrepancy has been written up and taken care of immediately and appropriately, and legally. It is unfair to say that the airline continues to be unsafe based on its past or what airline executives previously worked at. If that is the case, you should never step foot on a Southwest or an American airlines plane either then, because they have received more repercussions from the FAA than G4 has, and many G4 execs have moved onto other airlines such as United.
Isn't it easy to anonymously throw stones.
American and Southwest have been fined several million dollars for their maintenance practices in the past. I think Southwest holds the record for FAA fines. Allegiant just went through the ringer earlier than scheduled by the FAA, LOOKING for a reason to hang them, and came out fairly clean with only VERY MINOR discrepancies noted, which were immediately corrected internally and to the respective employee groups to fix. This is why the FAA exists. To correct the behavior when a company starts cutting corners.
I'm fairly new to the company and also never flew the -80, but in my experience on the line, Allegiant's mx has been top notch. Unlike other airlines I have worked for, not a single pilot or mechanic, mx control or anyone else has even insinuated on carrying a write-up or doing anything illegit. Any discrepancy has been written up and taken care of immediately and appropriately, and legally. It is unfair to say that the airline continues to be unsafe based on its past or what airline executives previously worked at. If that is the case, you should never step foot on a Southwest or an American airlines plane either then, because they have received more repercussions from the FAA than G4 has, and many G4 execs have moved onto other airlines such as United.
I wouldn't rely on the reputation of same defunct government institution that stood by and allowed ValuJet to operate despite glaring warning signs. MG continued his neglectful practices because there was no immediate financial reason not to. Except a crash. In typical FEMA fashion, the FAA stepped in after it was too late. The only lesson learned was that the government was inept and would not get in the way of profits. That mindset continues to this day at G4.
To be fair, as you stated, the FAA stepped in because the company was cutting corners. Unfortunately, as in the past, ample political ties and influence, driven by financial incentives has ensured their hands were tied. (http://www.kolotv.com/home/headlines...121814684.html). Happens everywhere, all industries, every day, but this industry is less forgiving when things go wrong. Any airline, including a major or legacy, can suffer a tragic mishap. Unlike them, G4 will not survive. We had a close call during the Lake Charles incident but again, we were lucky. Because of it, and a stern warning from DOT Secretary Ray LaHood, the focus shifted towards safety and reliability. That was short-lived.
It's imperative we don't look the other way, apologize or make excuses for management's inept and cheap approach to everything. Historically it's been pilots that forced bean-counters to step up in this business. We must continue to do the same. Pay what it costs to hire and keep the talent needed to maintain, supervise and safely operate an airline as the alternative tends to bring disastrous consequences. I agree with others that the rhetoric has gone silent since the contract was signed. It's not about throwing stones, it's about professionals demanding better oversight thereby ensuring the safety of the flying public and the survival of a company currently being run via spread sheets.
Last edited by tyler durden; 10-27-2016 at 08:38 AM.
10-27-2016, 08:48 AM
#4539
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A320
Posts: 1,347
Just my two cents but I do see added investments in training and maintenance in the last year or two. Cutting the head off MX recently spoke volumes to me.
It isn't fixed by any means but it's hard to call foul when you are seeing adjustments being made to improve your issues. The contract was a great addition but parallel to it is also a lot of investments asked for by pilots and the union.
I'm finding many of my complaints are from pre-2016. Dispatch does what I ask now. MX has issues but it seems to be acknowledged now instead of ignored. Training has improved and should be free from all of our gray areas on the Airbus as soon as the manuals are signed off. We now have a contract to follow... etc.
Work to be done for sure but this isn't the Wild West of 2009, 2010 or even 2014 anymore.
It isn't fixed by any means but it's hard to call foul when you are seeing adjustments being made to improve your issues. The contract was a great addition but parallel to it is also a lot of investments asked for by pilots and the union.
I'm finding many of my complaints are from pre-2016. Dispatch does what I ask now. MX has issues but it seems to be acknowledged now instead of ignored. Training has improved and should be free from all of our gray areas on the Airbus as soon as the manuals are signed off. We now have a contract to follow... etc.
Work to be done for sure but this isn't the Wild West of 2009, 2010 or even 2014 anymore.
10-27-2016, 10:03 AM
#4540
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 390
Originally Posted by labbats
Just my two cents but I do see added investments in training and maintenance in the last year or two. Cutting the head off MX recently spoke volumes to me.
It isn't fixed by any means but it's hard to call foul when you are seeing adjustments being made to improve your issues. The contract was a great addition but parallel to it is also a lot of investments asked for by pilots and the union.
I'm finding many of my complaints are from pre-2016. Dispatch does what I ask now. MX has issues but it seems to be acknowledged now instead of ignored. Training has improved and should be free from all of our gray areas on the Airbus as soon as the manuals are signed off. We now have a contract to follow... etc.
Work to be done for sure but this isn't the Wild West of 2009, 2010 or even 2014 anymore.
It isn't fixed by any means but it's hard to call foul when you are seeing adjustments being made to improve your issues. The contract was a great addition but parallel to it is also a lot of investments asked for by pilots and the union.
I'm finding many of my complaints are from pre-2016. Dispatch does what I ask now. MX has issues but it seems to be acknowledged now instead of ignored. Training has improved and should be free from all of our gray areas on the Airbus as soon as the manuals are signed off. We now have a contract to follow... etc.
Work to be done for sure but this isn't the Wild West of 2009, 2010 or even 2014 anymore.
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