Allegiant Air
10-26-2016 | 09:00 AM
#4531
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 862
Likes: 1
From: Center seat, doing loops to music
That's one of the interesting things I did witness about the narrative on here regarding G4. The second the pay issue got ameliorated, the entire safety narrative subsided. Get real. I had a buddy who passed on employment offer at G4 circa the strike threat time in '15, and the scuttlebutt in the squadron was very much a sense that going to work for Allegiant while waiting for DL/UA/AA/SW to call was gambling with your tickets, and that the mx practices were a big threat to the operation outright, regardless of pilot relations and negotiations.
Are we to believe the mx practices and corporate culture of an agency with ValueJet'esque carbon copy behavior (almost identical in forensics, right down to the above average profit yields up to the crash event) changed polarity overnight just because the pilots are now content to idle in place versus the grievances two years ago? I don't buy that for one second. I believe you guys are going to be the next ValueJet and it will be a catalyst for yet another 1500 rule type of populist outcry, which will challenge some of the hiring dynamics we are currently seeing. Ironically enough, probably going to affect the regionals more than the majors. I'm not trying to be hyperbolic, I have no axe to grind against G4 from a pilot perspective (im not a regional guy, just a mil/civ hybrid), but from a safety practices standpoint G4 quacks like a duck, it's just a matter of time. Getting my hush money isn't enough for me to act like the mx discourse on this very forum circa 2014-2015 didn't happen. It's almost unbelievable how quickly the narrative changed on here. This place is an echo chamber.
My family doesn't fly G4 at any price. This isn't about fares, it's about an honest and educated assessment on the mx practices from an industry peer review POV. To each their own. When one of those paid-for maddogs fails to rotate again or the T-tail flies off, or a clapped out engine uncontains and kills a bunch of people, nobody on here can act like all of a sudden this is a surprise.
Are we to believe the mx practices and corporate culture of an agency with ValueJet'esque carbon copy behavior (almost identical in forensics, right down to the above average profit yields up to the crash event) changed polarity overnight just because the pilots are now content to idle in place versus the grievances two years ago? I don't buy that for one second. I believe you guys are going to be the next ValueJet and it will be a catalyst for yet another 1500 rule type of populist outcry, which will challenge some of the hiring dynamics we are currently seeing. Ironically enough, probably going to affect the regionals more than the majors. I'm not trying to be hyperbolic, I have no axe to grind against G4 from a pilot perspective (im not a regional guy, just a mil/civ hybrid), but from a safety practices standpoint G4 quacks like a duck, it's just a matter of time. Getting my hush money isn't enough for me to act like the mx discourse on this very forum circa 2014-2015 didn't happen. It's almost unbelievable how quickly the narrative changed on here. This place is an echo chamber.
My family doesn't fly G4 at any price. This isn't about fares, it's about an honest and educated assessment on the mx practices from an industry peer review POV. To each their own. When one of those paid-for maddogs fails to rotate again or the T-tail flies off, or a clapped out engine uncontains and kills a bunch of people, nobody on here can act like all of a sudden this is a surprise.
10-26-2016 | 10:18 AM
#4532
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
From: A320
That's one of the interesting things I did witness about the narrative on here regarding G4. The second the pay issue got ameliorated, the entire safety narrative subsided. Get real. I had a buddy who passed on employment offer at G4 circa the strike threat time in '15, and the scuttlebutt in the squadron was very much a sense that going to work for Allegiant while waiting for DL/UA/AA/SW to call was gambling with your tickets, and that the mx practices were a big threat to the operation outright, regardless of pilot relations and negotiations.
Are we to believe the mx practices and corporate culture of an agency with ValueJet'esque carbon copy behavior (almost identical in forensics, right down to the above average profit yields up to the crash event) changed polarity overnight just because the pilots are now content to idle in place versus the grievances two years ago? I don't buy that for one second. I believe you guys are going to be the next ValueJet and it will be a catalyst for yet another 1500 rule type of populist outcry, which will challenge some of the hiring dynamics we are currently seeing. Ironically enough, probably going to affect the regionals more than the majors. I'm not trying to be hyperbolic, I have no axe to grind against G4 from a pilot perspective (im not a regional guy, just a mil/civ hybrid), but from a safety practices standpoint G4 quacks like a duck, it's just a matter of time. Getting my hush money isn't enough for me to act like the mx discourse on this very forum circa 2014-2015 didn't happen. It's almost unbelievable how quickly the narrative changed on here. This place is an echo chamber.
My family doesn't fly G4 at any price. This isn't about fares, it's about an honest and educated assessment on the mx practices from an industry peer review POV. To each their own. When one of those paid-for maddogs fails to rotate again or the T-tail flies off, or a clapped out engine uncontains and kills a bunch of people, nobody on here can act like all of a sudden this is a surprise.
Are we to believe the mx practices and corporate culture of an agency with ValueJet'esque carbon copy behavior (almost identical in forensics, right down to the above average profit yields up to the crash event) changed polarity overnight just because the pilots are now content to idle in place versus the grievances two years ago? I don't buy that for one second. I believe you guys are going to be the next ValueJet and it will be a catalyst for yet another 1500 rule type of populist outcry, which will challenge some of the hiring dynamics we are currently seeing. Ironically enough, probably going to affect the regionals more than the majors. I'm not trying to be hyperbolic, I have no axe to grind against G4 from a pilot perspective (im not a regional guy, just a mil/civ hybrid), but from a safety practices standpoint G4 quacks like a duck, it's just a matter of time. Getting my hush money isn't enough for me to act like the mx discourse on this very forum circa 2014-2015 didn't happen. It's almost unbelievable how quickly the narrative changed on here. This place is an echo chamber.
My family doesn't fly G4 at any price. This isn't about fares, it's about an honest and educated assessment on the mx practices from an industry peer review POV. To each their own. When one of those paid-for maddogs fails to rotate again or the T-tail flies off, or a clapped out engine uncontains and kills a bunch of people, nobody on here can act like all of a sudden this is a surprise.
Please.
Isn't it easy to anonymously throw stones.
American and Southwest have been fined several million dollars for their maintenance practices in the past. I think Southwest holds the record for FAA fines. Allegiant just went through the ringer earlier than scheduled by the FAA, LOOKING for a reason to hang them, and came out fairly clean with only VERY MINOR discrepancies noted, which were immediately corrected internally and to the respective employee groups to fix. This is why the FAA exists. To correct the behavior when a company starts cutting corners.
I'm fairly new to the company and also never flew the -80, but in my experience on the line, Allegiant's mx has been top notch. Unlike other airlines I have worked for, not a single pilot or mechanic, mx control or anyone else has even insinuated on carrying a write-up or doing anything illegit. Any discrepancy has been written up and taken care of immediately and appropriately, and legally. It is unfair to say that the airline continues to be unsafe based on its past or what airline executives previously worked at. If that is the case, you should never step foot on a Southwest or an American airlines plane either then, because they have received more repercussions from the FAA than G4 has, and many G4 execs have moved onto other airlines such as United.
10-26-2016 | 10:58 AM
#4533
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,583
Likes: 15
From: Hoping for any position
Please.
Isn't it easy to anonymously throw stones.
American and Southwest have been fined several million dollars for their maintenance practices in the past. I think Southwest holds the record for FAA fines. Allegiant just went through the ringer earlier than scheduled by the FAA, LOOKING for a reason to hang them, and came out fairly clean with only VERY MINOR discrepancies noted, which were immediately corrected internally and to the respective employee groups to fix. This is why the FAA exists. To correct the behavior when a company starts cutting corners.
I'm fairly new to the company and also never flew the -80, but in my experience on the line, Allegiant's mx has been top notch. Unlike other airlines I have worked for, not a single pilot or mechanic, mx control or anyone else has even insinuated on carrying a write-up or doing anything illegit. Any discrepancy has been written up and taken care of immediately and appropriately, and legally. It is unfair to say that the airline continues to be unsafe based on its past or what airline executives previously worked at. If that is the case, you should never step foot on a Southwest or an American airlines plane either then, because they have received more repercussions from the FAA than G4 has, and many G4 execs have moved onto other airlines such as United.
Isn't it easy to anonymously throw stones.
American and Southwest have been fined several million dollars for their maintenance practices in the past. I think Southwest holds the record for FAA fines. Allegiant just went through the ringer earlier than scheduled by the FAA, LOOKING for a reason to hang them, and came out fairly clean with only VERY MINOR discrepancies noted, which were immediately corrected internally and to the respective employee groups to fix. This is why the FAA exists. To correct the behavior when a company starts cutting corners.
I'm fairly new to the company and also never flew the -80, but in my experience on the line, Allegiant's mx has been top notch. Unlike other airlines I have worked for, not a single pilot or mechanic, mx control or anyone else has even insinuated on carrying a write-up or doing anything illegit. Any discrepancy has been written up and taken care of immediately and appropriately, and legally. It is unfair to say that the airline continues to be unsafe based on its past or what airline executives previously worked at. If that is the case, you should never step foot on a Southwest or an American airlines plane either then, because they have received more repercussions from the FAA than G4 has, and many G4 execs have moved onto other airlines such as United.
I saw some things that made my decision to leave very easy. Hell, my wife told me I need to leave immediately. This was after a nice "new" Airbus declared an emergency and was holding over the Gulf of Mexico to burn down fuel to return back to PIE. I didn't tell her about it, she listened while it was broadcast live on the radio. That was the same aircraft that was written up for the same thing 4 times and never did a thing to fix it. The Airbus gives the maintenance an big opportunity to show their true colors. "Oh, there and ECAM and we can't figure out what's wrong, well just power the plane down and if it's gone, good to go." That was the exact instruction from maintenance control. Verbatim. Known FOD in an engine, "we can MEL the bore scope for 10 days." I can go on and on.
You mention the FAA. How did that work out for Valujet? Before I came to G4 I read things about judges and the FAA being in the pocket of G4. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I can't figure out how the training department or maintenance made it through the FAA out of cycle inspection due to a high number of incidents.
That brings us to today and this bizarro world of APC in which G4 is better than any other place out there when just 1 year ago this place was the owned by the devil himself and no one in their right mind would leave their regional to go to G4. But now there is a contract so this is the best place to be. I mean seriously, I have been reading APC for years and it is a complete 180 with nothing new but a contract.
We can debate the issues other airlines have but to deny there is nothing but "minor discrepancies" at Allegiant and it's obvious there is no discussion possible. I wish you guys luck and hope it works out.
I knew I'd seen that somewhere before...
10-26-2016 | 11:42 AM
#4535
Line Holder
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 314
Likes: 8
From: AB
Can't really respond to that, you won't be able to read it with your head buried deep in the sand.
I saw some things that made my decision to leave very easy. Hell, my wife told me I need to leave immediately. This was after a nice "new" Airbus declared an emergency and was holding over the Gulf of Mexico to burn down fuel to return back to PIE. I didn't tell her about it, she listened while it was broadcast live on the radio. That was the same aircraft that was written up for the same thing 4 times and never did a thing to fix it. The Airbus gives the maintenance an big opportunity to show their true colors. "Oh, there and ECAM and we can't figure out what's wrong, well just power the plane down and if it's gone, good to go." That was the exact instruction from maintenance control. Verbatim. Known FOD in an engine, "we can MEL the bore scope for 10 days." I can go on and on.
You mention the FAA. How did that work out for Valujet? Before I came to G4 I read things about judges and the FAA being in the pocket of G4. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I can't figure out how the training department or maintenance made it through the FAA out of cycle inspection due to a high number of incidents.
That brings us to today and this bizarro world of APC in which G4 is better than any other place out there when just 1 year ago this place was the owned by the devil himself and no one in their right mind would leave their regional to go to G4. But now there is a contract so this is the best place to be. I mean seriously, I have been reading APC for years and it is a complete 180 with nothing new but a contract.
We can debate the issues other airlines have but to deny there is nothing but "minor discrepancies" at Allegiant and it's obvious there is no discussion possible. I wish you guys luck and hope it works out.
I saw some things that made my decision to leave very easy. Hell, my wife told me I need to leave immediately. This was after a nice "new" Airbus declared an emergency and was holding over the Gulf of Mexico to burn down fuel to return back to PIE. I didn't tell her about it, she listened while it was broadcast live on the radio. That was the same aircraft that was written up for the same thing 4 times and never did a thing to fix it. The Airbus gives the maintenance an big opportunity to show their true colors. "Oh, there and ECAM and we can't figure out what's wrong, well just power the plane down and if it's gone, good to go." That was the exact instruction from maintenance control. Verbatim. Known FOD in an engine, "we can MEL the bore scope for 10 days." I can go on and on.
You mention the FAA. How did that work out for Valujet? Before I came to G4 I read things about judges and the FAA being in the pocket of G4. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I can't figure out how the training department or maintenance made it through the FAA out of cycle inspection due to a high number of incidents.
That brings us to today and this bizarro world of APC in which G4 is better than any other place out there when just 1 year ago this place was the owned by the devil himself and no one in their right mind would leave their regional to go to G4. But now there is a contract so this is the best place to be. I mean seriously, I have been reading APC for years and it is a complete 180 with nothing new but a contract.
We can debate the issues other airlines have but to deny there is nothing but "minor discrepancies" at Allegiant and it's obvious there is no discussion possible. I wish you guys luck and hope it works out.
We can play tennis with the facts all day long. Unless the CHEP inspection was bogus, the results are the results.
We have our problems... a lot of them... but catastrophic problems they are not in my opinion. As was said above, the MX fines incurred by other airlines are impressive compared to what we've been fined. That has to somewhat speak to reality.
10-26-2016 | 03:17 PM
#4536
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
That's one of the interesting things I did witness about the narrative on here regarding G4. The second the pay issue got ameliorated, the entire safety narrative subsided. Get real. I had a buddy who passed on employment offer at G4 circa the strike threat time in '15, and the scuttlebutt in the squadron was very much a sense that going to work for Allegiant while waiting for DL/UA/AA/SW to call was gambling with your tickets, and that the mx practices were a big threat to the operation outright, regardless of pilot relations and negotiations.
Are we to believe the mx practices and corporate culture of an agency with ValueJet'esque carbon copy behavior (almost identical in forensics, right down to the above average profit yields up to the crash event) changed polarity overnight just because the pilots are now content to idle in place versus the grievances two years ago? I don't buy that for one second. I believe you guys are going to be the next ValueJet and it will be a catalyst for yet another 1500 rule type of populist outcry, which will challenge some of the hiring dynamics we are currently seeing. Ironically enough, probably going to affect the regionals more than the majors. I'm not trying to be hyperbolic, I have no axe to grind against G4 from a pilot perspective (im not a regional guy, just a mil/civ hybrid), but from a safety practices standpoint G4 quacks like a duck, it's just a matter of time. Getting my hush money isn't enough for me to act like the mx discourse on this very forum circa 2014-2015 didn't happen. It's almost unbelievable how quickly the narrative changed on here. This place is an echo chamber.
My family doesn't fly G4 at any price. This isn't about fares, it's about an honest and educated assessment on the mx practices from an industry peer review POV. To each their own. When one of those paid-for maddogs fails to rotate again or the T-tail flies off, or a clapped out engine uncontains and kills a bunch of people, nobody on here can act like all of a sudden this is a surprise.
Are we to believe the mx practices and corporate culture of an agency with ValueJet'esque carbon copy behavior (almost identical in forensics, right down to the above average profit yields up to the crash event) changed polarity overnight just because the pilots are now content to idle in place versus the grievances two years ago? I don't buy that for one second. I believe you guys are going to be the next ValueJet and it will be a catalyst for yet another 1500 rule type of populist outcry, which will challenge some of the hiring dynamics we are currently seeing. Ironically enough, probably going to affect the regionals more than the majors. I'm not trying to be hyperbolic, I have no axe to grind against G4 from a pilot perspective (im not a regional guy, just a mil/civ hybrid), but from a safety practices standpoint G4 quacks like a duck, it's just a matter of time. Getting my hush money isn't enough for me to act like the mx discourse on this very forum circa 2014-2015 didn't happen. It's almost unbelievable how quickly the narrative changed on here. This place is an echo chamber.
My family doesn't fly G4 at any price. This isn't about fares, it's about an honest and educated assessment on the mx practices from an industry peer review POV. To each their own. When one of those paid-for maddogs fails to rotate again or the T-tail flies off, or a clapped out engine uncontains and kills a bunch of people, nobody on here can act like all of a sudden this is a surprise.
Funny how the majority of media slander was during our most intense negotiating period. I was a regional captain and I can tell you that G4 MX is a MILLION times better than what I experienced at that place. I have witnessed the most ridiculous garbage come from the media with regards to Allegiant… Tampa Bay Times anyone? Title: Another engine failure for Allegiant, Reality: compressor stall followed by low speed abort. Title: Serious Allegiant Airlines safety issues revealed in FAA reports, Reality: FAA finds “minor non-systemic” issues during evaluation.
That being said, we have had some serious events. You are right; the series of engine failures/shutdowns and the elevator control tab in LAS (cotter pin not installed on a castellated nut by a non-allegiant mechanic… the same company and mechanics that service United, Virgin America, and others) are a blemish on our reputation. But I ask you this, what airline doesn’t have a blemish? Fuselage split open inflight followed by rapid decompression, uncontained engine failure, landing at the wrong airport, collapsing the nose wheel on landing, FAA fines for MX practices. Sounds like Allegiant, right? Nope, Southwest! An excellent company, that has blemishes, just like everybody else. (Disclaimer: in no way am I saying Allegiant is better than Southwest. Using America’s luv child airline as an example just helps my argument.)
So by your logic, your family shouldn’t be flying on Southwest. By your logic, it’s completely unimaginable that things can improve at G4. It will stay the same airline it was in 1999, flying casino charters from Fresno to Vegas. Give me a break. Every month I notice improvements including MX, training, training facilities, management changes, publications, communication and dissemination of info, retiring the 80’s, factory new airbus, and most importantly, individuals dedicated to improving this place… no, I’m not talking about Maury. He’s got to be 70 years old and nearing retirement… you think things might improve with him being gone? I think so.
Does this place have its issues? Oh hell yes! I’ll be the first to admit it. Does pencil whipping happen sometimes? Yes, and it ****es me off! And just because things have taken a more positive turn on this godforsaken website doesn’t imply that G4 is suddenly the best place for everyone to be. We all know that’s crap. “Hey guys, someone said they were happy… BURN IT DOWN!” You look foolish peddling your old ideas with big words, peer reviews, and the like.
10-26-2016 | 03:27 PM
#4537
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Once delays happen because of pencil whipping, they’ll try something else.
10-26-2016 | 05:04 PM
#4538
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Just in case you didn't know, G4 has replaced a LOT of their operational managers in the last year...including MX. The meet and greets we had in new hire classes were nearly all new leadership. They have chopped off a lot of heads in the last 12 months. Time will tell if it works, but I don't think it was a bad decision either way.
10-26-2016 | 05:44 PM
#4539
Kabuki Kool
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 447
Likes: 0
From: fu3king.airline@Furlough. DNA
My family doesn't fly G4 at any price. This isn't about fares, it's about an honest and educated assessment on the mx practices from an industry peer review POV. To each their own. When one of those paid-for maddogs fails to rotate again or the T-tail flies off, or a clapped out engine uncontains and kills a bunch of people, nobody on here can act like all of a sudden this is a surprise.
Your lack of service and patronage to G4 will not be missed. Cheers and thanks for your concern.
10-26-2016 | 05:52 PM
#4540
On Reserve
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: sitting facing south
Delta MD-80 had flames shooting out while compressor stalling just a few days ago out of SGF...
Incident: Delta MD88 at Springfield on Oct 23rd 2016, engine compressor stall
Wonder if he and his family will pee their pants before boarding a Delta MD-80 now?
Incident: Delta MD88 at Springfield on Oct 23rd 2016, engine compressor stall
Wonder if he and his family will pee their pants before boarding a Delta MD-80 now?
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