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Old 09-10-2017, 07:21 PM   #121
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The 50th percentile guy was hired in 1999. 40th % is late 1999, 30% is 2001 new hire. Every day those numbers shift towards the more junior guys.

B scalers took over the union in 6 years back in the 1980's. They got organized and actually made sense.
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Old 09-11-2017, 04:03 AM   #122
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APA is pretty much unfixable. The very structure of the leadership , the way the BOD is run , the lack of accountability, the refusal to adapt... all form part of APA's DNA that has been unchanged since 1963 and is exactly why AA pilots have never led the industry in contracts. And management knows this and exploits it at every opportunity. The ONLY time APA has ever been successful has been with sporadic grass roots efforts from the membership.

APA needs to be dismantled, merged with ALPA, and re-equipped with new leadership for a fresh restart for AA pilots (I'm all for keeping Dan Carey though.) ALPA has its problems but I'll gladly take my chances with them after, what, 50 years of substandard APA contracts?

It's long past due.






Agreed!!!!!
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Old 09-11-2017, 05:30 AM   #123
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Holy ####, really!!!!! Take some advise from FROZEN....

Let it Go, Let it Go

It's seriously unhealthy
Even though I never had a dog in the East/West fight, I think we can all agree that USAPA is the perfect example of a circular firing squad. See also APA.
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Old 09-11-2017, 06:52 AM   #124
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Had a Delta guy in the JS the other day. I asked his thoughts on ALPA. He said DL wants to go independent. A lot of the gripes we have about APA are more of the same at ALPA. $400/person dinners, you've got local and national guys doing that. I think our problem with APA isn't just structure but also the people we keep voting in as our reps. There are a lot of guys that have been here so long they are unaware of what things other airlines have and we don't and how they'd benefit us. "If we didn't invent it, we don't want it" runs rampant here along with "That's the way we've always done it." My ideal union rep would be a fairly new guy that worked at a regional or two then a LCC before coming here.
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:48 PM   #125
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Even though I never had a dog in the East/West fight, I think we can all agree that USAPA is the perfect example of a circular firing squad. See also APA.
I don't disagree, but referencing USAPA is insane. They are gone, GONE! The current APA problems have nothing to do with USAPA. Time to move on from it, and the comparison doesn't even equat. Many supported USAPA. I haven't flown with one person that supports APA. That says a lot.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:23 AM   #126
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Had a Delta guy in the JS the other day. I asked his thoughts on ALPA. He said DL wants to go independent. A lot of the gripes we have about APA are more of the same at ALPA. $400/person dinners, you've got local and national guys doing that. I think our problem with APA isn't just structure but also the people we keep voting in as our reps. There are a lot of guys that have been here so long they are unaware of what things other airlines have and we don't and how they'd benefit us. "If we didn't invent it, we don't want it" runs rampant here along with "That's the way we've always done it." My ideal union rep would be a fairly new guy that worked at a regional or two then a LCC before coming here.
Funny, the Delta guy in my j/s the other day on ATL-DFW said the exact opposite, he was very happy with the contract and pay ALPA got him and referred to the DPA hopefuls as "those clowns that are trying to undo it all."

For Delta (or any legacy) to leave ALPA and go independent is akin to a bullet to the head. The ALPA legacies have the absolute best contracts.
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:13 PM   #127
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I don't disagree, but referencing USAPA is insane. They are gone, GONE! The current APA problems have nothing to do with USAPA. Time to move on from it, and the comparison doesn't even equat. Many supported USAPA. I haven't flown with one person that supports APA. That says a lot.
Yep.

I bet that guy gets in planes and ties knots in oxygen masks.

No one freaking cares! No one. Let it go!!
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Old 09-12-2017, 08:00 PM   #128
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I do not think any union will solidify the AA group at this stage...maybe 10-15 years from now but not anytime soon. Unfortunately since the advent of the B scale in the mid eighties there have never been agreement on most issues and we are far more fragmented now than then. It will take time for the seniority integration dissatisfaction to heal if ever. The best thing we could do is match our counterparts at Delta and United. By the time the next contract comes around we will lag them both in most areas. Of course like always management will drag their feet and our unity will be tested and hopefully we stick together. Hasn't worked too well in the past but again, ALPA or APA, without a solid membership who represents us doesn't make much of a difference.
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Old 09-13-2017, 06:54 AM   #129
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I do not think any union will solidify the AA group at this stage...maybe 10-15 years from now but not anytime soon. Unfortunately since the advent of the B scale in the mid eighties there have never been agreement on most issues and we are far more fragmented now than then. It will take time for the seniority integration dissatisfaction to heal if ever. The best thing we could do is match our counterparts at Delta and United. By the time the next contract comes around we will lag them both in most areas. Of course like always management will drag their feet and our unity will be tested and hopefully we stick together. Hasn't worked too well in the past but again, ALPA or APA, without a solid membership who represents us doesn't make much of a difference.
The thing that bugs me is how they actively work against the membership.

Both the east and west had good rigs credits and work rules, and the JCBA magically lost all that stuff. Was not an accident
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:03 AM   #130
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My own policy, until I decide to get actively involved, is to alway vote against the incumbent. Let’s all give that a try or get involved! Join the gravy train, get 95 hours and not fly! Bump the jumps, eat like a king! Your union wants you and you don’t even have to be good!
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