Min calendar day
09-19-2017, 05:28 PM
#151
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Reverse Cowgirl
Posts: 545
Originally Posted by Mover
Nope. The top half of the seniority list is the "me generation" of ladder-pullers. They will vote whatever is best for them and we'll get screwed for another 6 years.
It's unreal how we have a pilot group within a pilot group.
No min calendar day?
What's the typical length of a widebody leg? 8 hours? 9-10?
Guess what a three day two legger pays... 16+ hours.. Anyone think they cared about min calendar? Nope.
The company wanted to move the Paris hotel out to the airport. Said it cost an extra million per year. Guess where the million came from...it was agreed to take it from narrowbody.
09-20-2017, 05:22 AM
#152
Unfaithfully yours, Hank
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: All
Posts: 222
When some of you folks talked about sub-regional work rules, I really didn't realize where you were coming from until I have been here a while...
SOMETHING FOR UAL/DAL PROSPECTS TO CONSIDER..... I came from a non-union regional and we did not have ANY of this BS below...
I ran into a buddy (767UAL FO) the other day. He said he made $30,000 last month and only flew 60hrs.
I asked him how the heck he did that.... he said he had a few canceled trips and just picked up a posted trip from another pilot, plus a couple of premium trips... this kind of ticked me off, because we can't do anything like this at AA. Why? RECOVERY OBLIGATION. If you have a cancelled trip for whatever reason, you cannot do anything else within the footprint of that trip. Oh, but you ARE on the hook by the company to get assigned another trip and must be contactable every afternoon until your original trip footprint has passed. Oh, and you don't get paid extra if you do get assigned another trip (unless the new one exceeds the credit for the original). Also, I flew with a West captain who told me some of their FOs would get close to 300k/yr, even with their old crap pay because of the same thing (not sure I believed him but, still).
Want to call in sick? Ha... with what sick time? This is a funny thing because none of the Captains I fly with realize how incredibly slow we accrue sick time (most have 500-1000hrs from the OLD work rules). If you call in sick for one 4 day trip, that is pretty close to all the sick time you spent a year accruing. I'm trying to get to around 400-500hrs eventually, so I can cover about 6 months sick until LTD kicks in, in case of some health issue. This will probably take most of my career to do.
Do you commute? At my NON UNION REGIONAL we could post/trade partial trips... i.e., last turn of a trip, last leg, etc. Not at AA. We now have a gazillion pilots based in LAX that live in PHX. Probably many LAX trips that end in a PHX turn. Want to end your trip at home and give that leg to a guy going to work? Won't happen at AA. The trip is all or nothing.
Oh, I almost forgot about IMAX. If you plan on crediting an average of 90hrs a month, go elsewhere. At AA, you are limited to 1080 credit hrs a year. That's not FLYING, that's CREDIT. The only exception is any extra credit accrued through premium trips. So... wife/kid gets very sick and you need to work your butt off to pay medical bills... or did you lose everything in a hurricane?? Well, just as long as you don't avg more than 90hrs a month, ok!
Oh, speaking of premium..... lol (this is mostly where my buddy made the $$$). This company will do anything they can to avoid paying it. My last 4 day went premium for the CA. Guess what they did with the trip? Broke it up into a million pieces so the only thing that paid premium was the first turn. Unless there is a trip going somewhere where they can't swap out a crew member, you probably won't see very many full trips go PM. And even then, they'll probably just DH someone and break it up anyway.
Minimum calendar day... again, something we had at my NON UNION REGIONAL. Love red eyes? I hope so, cuz yer getting paid garbage to do them... example... calendar day 1: JFK-LAX... calendar day 2: mostly sit... calendar day 3: red eye LAX-JFK. What's the credit? 10:20rs for 3 days. What would it be if we had an industry standard min cal DAY? 15:30hrs. I'm sure there are many Intl trips that this would affect too.
The next thing is that our union is a total clown show. Leave it to them to always try to find a way to 'stick it to the man' and drive a wedge right between the pilot group at the same time. They pat themselves on the back with the lastest pay raise, but as some have mentioned on this forum, its obvious the company did it to be competitive with UAL and DAL new hires. I'm sure they got tired of folks bailing out of training for 7% more hourly pay, better work rules and profit sharing that will dang near buy you a new car every year. But APA says it's all because you didn't float. Sure. But at least they drew a line in the sand and STOPPED trying to improve our contract over something that effects a small fraction of the pilot group. I'm sure management were busting their guts on that one! Another wedge...
Other airlines have their complaints, sure, but we are so behind an industry standard contract it's laughable. And what's scary, is that most of the pilot group doesn't even realize it. This is were I finally came to the conclusion that we need to flush all these turds and bring in ALPA or someone who knows what a contract should look like. I don't know how APA can go from where we are, to a decent contract. There is so much ground to reclaim and you always have to give to get something....
The best thing we can do to make improvements is to point out these items that keep AA in last place among legacy airlines, is to keep encouraging prospective pilots to go elsewhere and rightfully so. The more mgmt sees folks bail from week 5 or training because so much of the contract is better at UAL/DAL, they might finally wake up. Mgmt even showed their hand by the 8% raise.
I'm sure there are more things that are egregious, but I'm still on my first cup of coffee, so I'm a little slow today. Yeah, I know, "if it's so bad, why don't you go somewhere else?" Well, I would, but that ship has kind of sailed for me. I live in an AA base and have been here 5 yrs. If I were 2yrs in and lived elsewhere, I'd be renewing my UA/DL app daily.
But the good news is that "I'll be senior someday" and I guess none of this will matter...
SOMETHING FOR UAL/DAL PROSPECTS TO CONSIDER..... I came from a non-union regional and we did not have ANY of this BS below...
I ran into a buddy (767UAL FO) the other day. He said he made $30,000 last month and only flew 60hrs.
I asked him how the heck he did that.... he said he had a few canceled trips and just picked up a posted trip from another pilot, plus a couple of premium trips... this kind of ticked me off, because we can't do anything like this at AA. Why? RECOVERY OBLIGATION. If you have a cancelled trip for whatever reason, you cannot do anything else within the footprint of that trip. Oh, but you ARE on the hook by the company to get assigned another trip and must be contactable every afternoon until your original trip footprint has passed. Oh, and you don't get paid extra if you do get assigned another trip (unless the new one exceeds the credit for the original). Also, I flew with a West captain who told me some of their FOs would get close to 300k/yr, even with their old crap pay because of the same thing (not sure I believed him but, still).Want to call in sick? Ha... with what sick time? This is a funny thing because none of the Captains I fly with realize how incredibly slow we accrue sick time (most have 500-1000hrs from the OLD work rules). If you call in sick for one 4 day trip, that is pretty close to all the sick time you spent a year accruing. I'm trying to get to around 400-500hrs eventually, so I can cover about 6 months sick until LTD kicks in, in case of some health issue. This will probably take most of my career to do.
Do you commute? At my NON UNION REGIONAL we could post/trade partial trips... i.e., last turn of a trip, last leg, etc. Not at AA. We now have a gazillion pilots based in LAX that live in PHX. Probably many LAX trips that end in a PHX turn. Want to end your trip at home and give that leg to a guy going to work? Won't happen at AA. The trip is all or nothing.
Oh, I almost forgot about IMAX. If you plan on crediting an average of 90hrs a month, go elsewhere. At AA, you are limited to 1080 credit hrs a year. That's not FLYING, that's CREDIT. The only exception is any extra credit accrued through premium trips. So... wife/kid gets very sick and you need to work your butt off to pay medical bills... or did you lose everything in a hurricane?? Well, just as long as you don't avg more than 90hrs a month, ok!
Oh, speaking of premium..... lol (this is mostly where my buddy made the $$$). This company will do anything they can to avoid paying it. My last 4 day went premium for the CA. Guess what they did with the trip? Broke it up into a million pieces so the only thing that paid premium was the first turn. Unless there is a trip going somewhere where they can't swap out a crew member, you probably won't see very many full trips go PM. And even then, they'll probably just DH someone and break it up anyway.
Minimum calendar day... again, something we had at my NON UNION REGIONAL. Love red eyes? I hope so, cuz yer getting paid garbage to do them... example... calendar day 1: JFK-LAX... calendar day 2: mostly sit... calendar day 3: red eye LAX-JFK. What's the credit? 10:20rs for 3 days. What would it be if we had an industry standard min cal DAY? 15:30hrs. I'm sure there are many Intl trips that this would affect too.
The next thing is that our union is a total clown show. Leave it to them to always try to find a way to 'stick it to the man' and drive a wedge right between the pilot group at the same time. They pat themselves on the back with the lastest pay raise, but as some have mentioned on this forum, its obvious the company did it to be competitive with UAL and DAL new hires. I'm sure they got tired of folks bailing out of training for 7% more hourly pay, better work rules and profit sharing that will dang near buy you a new car every year. But APA says it's all because you didn't float. Sure. But at least they drew a line in the sand and STOPPED trying to improve our contract over something that effects a small fraction of the pilot group. I'm sure management were busting their guts on that one! Another wedge...
Other airlines have their complaints, sure, but we are so behind an industry standard contract it's laughable. And what's scary, is that most of the pilot group doesn't even realize it. This is were I finally came to the conclusion that we need to flush all these turds and bring in ALPA or someone who knows what a contract should look like. I don't know how APA can go from where we are, to a decent contract. There is so much ground to reclaim and you always have to give to get something....
The best thing we can do to make improvements is to point out these items that keep AA in last place among legacy airlines, is to keep encouraging prospective pilots to go elsewhere and rightfully so. The more mgmt sees folks bail from week 5 or training because so much of the contract is better at UAL/DAL, they might finally wake up. Mgmt even showed their hand by the 8% raise.
I'm sure there are more things that are egregious, but I'm still on my first cup of coffee, so I'm a little slow today. Yeah, I know, "if it's so bad, why don't you go somewhere else?" Well, I would, but that ship has kind of sailed for me. I live in an AA base and have been here 5 yrs. If I were 2yrs in and lived elsewhere, I'd be renewing my UA/DL app daily.
But the good news is that "I'll be senior someday" and I guess none of this will matter...
09-20-2017, 05:25 AM
#153
Unfaithfully yours, Hank
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: All
Posts: 222
Man, didn't realize I typed so much...
Tldr/ADHD version:
If you're an AA prospective, do yourself and your family a favor... go someplace with a decent contract, because we don't have one even close and I don't know how we possibly ever get there.
Tldr/ADHD version:
If you're an AA prospective, do yourself and your family a favor... go someplace with a decent contract, because we don't have one even close and I don't know how we possibly ever get there.
09-20-2017, 10:28 AM
#155
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by MarineGrunt
Man, didn't realize I typed so much...
Tldr/ADHD version:
If you're an AA prospective, do yourself and your family a favor... go someplace with a decent contract, because we don't have one even close and I don't know how we possibly ever get there.
Tldr/ADHD version:
If you're an AA prospective, do yourself and your family a favor... go someplace with a decent contract, because we don't have one even close and I don't know how we possibly ever get there.
09-20-2017, 11:55 AM
#157
Unfaithfully yours, Hank
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: All
Posts: 222
Originally Posted by DarinFred
Grunt, good points. I agree with most of that except for your IMAX portion. A lot of people know how to work IMAX so they get 1 or 2 months off in addition to their vacation.
09-20-2017, 12:53 PM
#158
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,093
In order to IMAX out you have to go down to about 6 days off a month for 10 months.
Yes you get paid reserve guarantee or something like a minimum line value which is actually better because then you can pick up premium on any day of the month.
Yes you get paid reserve guarantee or something like a minimum line value which is actually better because then you can pick up premium on any day of the month.
09-20-2017, 01:04 PM
#159
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: Airbus button pusher
Posts: 2,447
Originally Posted by Name User
In order to IMAX out you have to go down to about 6 days off a month for 10 months.
Yes you get paid reserve guarantee or something like a minimum line value which is actually better because then you can pick up premium on any day of the month.
Yes you get paid reserve guarantee or something like a minimum line value which is actually better because then you can pick up premium on any day of the month.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
