Holy thread creep batman!

 

SWA is not ALPA and their contract is arguably the best out of all the passenger carriers.

 

Oh I have no doubt APA has its own set of problems. But as Sheepdog said, voting in ALPA won't fix those problems. Introducing a new layer of bureaucracy that has a completely different set of motivations from the rank and file of AA pilots only complicates things.That's all I'm saying.

 

That is indeed the problem. ALPA is controlled by the UAL and DAL pilots, which means they really don't GAF about stopping the whipsaw among the regional members of ALPA.

Let's follow your argument to it's conclusion and assume American votes in ALPA. The entrenched UAL and DAL pilots at national aren't exactly going to give up their elected positions without a fight, not with such a sweet gig they have made for themselves. Are you willing to let your national representation be led by pilots of other carriers that quite frankly would like nothing better than to see your company fail for their own personal benefit and company's market share? Remember, ALPA is an association (spit) not a union.

Just some food for thought.

 

I'm going to assume you're not familiar with what occurred. The company offered a largely concessionary contract to PSA (another AAG wholly owned) that promised to transfer our CRJ-700's to them if they signed. (There's a whole lot more to it than that, but that's the gist.) That's not PSA negotiating improvements, that's the company using strongarm whipsaw tactics against their own pilots.

In the old days, when ALPA actually thought of themselves as a union, there is precedent for ALPA national to come take an MEC into receivership when they won't "toe the line." My memory is hazy but I believe it happened when the airlines were trying to get rid of the FE positions years ago. If ALPA national had any balls or principals whatsoever, they would have told the PSA MEC there is no way in hell they would enable AAG management to use this kind of tactic to play ALPA pilots against each other. An association (spit) that allows one group to directly undercut another is worthless as a labor organization, period. Isn't that the WHOLE POINT of a union?

The safety, security, aeromedical, legal, and other departments DO have an enormous positive impact on our profession. But I sure as hell don't want them to be my union representation.

No, ALPA was created to act as a union, and for the better part of their early history, they even acted like it. Their goal WAS to prevent whipsaw by management, no matter how big or small the operation. Now, it's a good old boys club that doesn't GAF that up until the last few years we had regional ALPA F/O's that made fast food wages.

The biggest mistake APA EVER MADE was allowing any flying to be done by pilots off their list. If the APA members want leverage again, they need to fix that.

ALPA is NOT the solution.

 

You were not under ALPA for 17 years crapped on at every opportunity. I can assure you my feelings will not change toward ALPA. Anybody who paid attention during those years whether it was at Eagle or another regional will most likely echo my sentiment.

 

If we get back in to ALPA, it will be controlled by AAL, UAL and DAL. I'm perfectly fine with that setup and do believe we would get a far better contract than we have ever gotten with APA.

 

I'd say that's bc they never went through bankruptcy.

 

Not my point. He said it would be nice to have APA looking out for our interests. They don't. My tenure under ALPA did a far better job than these guys.

 

What I meant was I would rather have locally elected reps from within my airline running the shop, rather than OAL folks sitting in DC that may, or may not, have my best interests in mind. The closer and more personally accountable they are, the better. That doesn't mean that APA isn't a **** show, as I'm sure I'll find out soon.