Republic Airline Unilateral JS Action
09-07-2019 | 08:16 AM
#471
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,578
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From: Semi-Retired...
A “reciprocal agreement” on OUR FLIGHTS. I fully support that your captains have the right to deny the jumpseat, which is what they will be doing to AA pilots who are properly listed for the jumpseat in accordance with company policy. You want to deny the jumpseat out of order than fine! That’s a jumpseat war.
FAR 121.547 says that in order to sit in the jumpseat you must have permission from the pilot in command and that under his emergency authority the PIC can exclude anyone from the cockpit in the interest of safety. NO ONE HERE IS ARGUING THAT WHATSOEVER.
What we are arguing is the fact that a handful of your brightest crayon munchers are stating that this is not a change to priority and is a true reciprocal agreement. A reciprocal agreement means I can ride your jumpseat and you can ride mine, ok that box is checked.
Now that we have those two items out of the way, the next issue in the reciprocity agreement would be how we are cleared from the standby list in accordance with the flag carriers travel/jumpseat policy. Mine says pilots on their own metal, D1 FDJ, D2 FDJ, D6UJ. Yours says..... oh wait that’s right you didn’t sell a single ticket, your RJ says American Eagle on the side of it, you were hired to operate the way we tell you to operate, you use our gate agents, and the standby list, including jumpseats, for AA flights is cleared in accordance with AA policy. By all means, tell us we can’t ride, that is 100% your right, but when we’ve done everything right in accordance with the policy that trumps yours and you remove us for the Delta guy, it’s a jumpseat war. Trying to hide behind the fact that your FOM states this is “the law” is retarded. The FAA doesn’t care about what the priority list for a jumpseat is beyond FAA, NTSB, Secret Service etc, and I doubt AA is going to let a little contract carrier put pressure on them just because they changed their FOM. That is setting a dangerous precedent, and I doubt they would take that risk. While this is small, what would be next?
All that being said, I still think you guys are right, and if it wasn’t for a few of your finest on here pounding their chests because “we’ve successfully changed the jumpseat priority and are going to treat AA pilots the way they treated us all these years,” there would probably be a lot of guys that would go to bat for you. Like we’ve said, we had no idea, but the way these guys have been on here I’d rather just throw them a comfort animal and send them off to their safe space. They can sit there and feel great about themselves for bumping the American guy off an American flight and giving it to United. Bravo
FAR 121.547 says that in order to sit in the jumpseat you must have permission from the pilot in command and that under his emergency authority the PIC can exclude anyone from the cockpit in the interest of safety. NO ONE HERE IS ARGUING THAT WHATSOEVER.
What we are arguing is the fact that a handful of your brightest crayon munchers are stating that this is not a change to priority and is a true reciprocal agreement. A reciprocal agreement means I can ride your jumpseat and you can ride mine, ok that box is checked.
Now that we have those two items out of the way, the next issue in the reciprocity agreement would be how we are cleared from the standby list in accordance with the flag carriers travel/jumpseat policy. Mine says pilots on their own metal, D1 FDJ, D2 FDJ, D6UJ. Yours says..... oh wait that’s right you didn’t sell a single ticket, your RJ says American Eagle on the side of it, you were hired to operate the way we tell you to operate, you use our gate agents, and the standby list, including jumpseats, for AA flights is cleared in accordance with AA policy. By all means, tell us we can’t ride, that is 100% your right, but when we’ve done everything right in accordance with the policy that trumps yours and you remove us for the Delta guy, it’s a jumpseat war. Trying to hide behind the fact that your FOM states this is “the law” is retarded. The FAA doesn’t care about what the priority list for a jumpseat is beyond FAA, NTSB, Secret Service etc, and I doubt AA is going to let a little contract carrier put pressure on them just because they changed their FOM. That is setting a dangerous precedent, and I doubt they would take that risk. While this is small, what would be next?
All that being said, I still think you guys are right, and if it wasn’t for a few of your finest on here pounding their chests because “we’ve successfully changed the jumpseat priority and are going to treat AA pilots the way they treated us all these years,” there would probably be a lot of guys that would go to bat for you. Like we’ve said, we had no idea, but the way these guys have been on here I’d rather just throw them a comfort animal and send them off to their safe space. They can sit there and feel great about themselves for bumping the American guy off an American flight and giving it to United. Bravo
They other issue they’ve avoided is they are but one of eight feeders. How can AAG justify putting a RAH guy ahead of a Mesa guy...? They like to use the Spirit, Southwest guy as the example, but it just as easily could be another contractor. There’s only a 1/3rd chance they’re even doing AE flying.
The FDJ AAC needs to be fixed, I think we all agree there. However their attitude is going to lose that support.
09-07-2019 | 08:39 AM
#472
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Joined: Jun 2016
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Excellent post.
They other issue they’ve avoided is they are but one of eight feeders. How can AAG justify putting a RAH guy ahead of a Mesa guy...? They like to use the Spirit, Southwest guy as the example, but it just as easily could be another contractor. There’s only a 1/3rd chance they’re even doing AE flying.
The FDJ AAC needs to be fixed, I think we all agree there. However their attitude is going to lose that support.
They other issue they’ve avoided is they are but one of eight feeders. How can AAG justify putting a RAH guy ahead of a Mesa guy...? They like to use the Spirit, Southwest guy as the example, but it just as easily could be another contractor. There’s only a 1/3rd chance they’re even doing AE flying.
The FDJ AAC needs to be fixed, I think we all agree there. However their attitude is going to lose that support.
09-07-2019 | 08:41 AM
#473
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Joined: Feb 2018
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(don’t forget it was signed off by the FAA)
09-07-2019 | 08:43 AM
#474
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Joined: Feb 2017
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From: ERJ-170
09-07-2019 | 09:18 AM
#475
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 78
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From: 737
Yeah, if you bothered to read the whole post you’d see I was being sarcastic. I’m well aware the FAA doesn’t care. Pointing out the FAA approved the change to the Republic FOM has been a repeated defense of the new policy by Republic pilots.
09-07-2019 | 09:37 AM
#476
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Joined: Aug 2005
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The FAA does not care what your fom says as long as it does not violate far's, even if they sign off on it. The FAA position is FAA still goes first does not violate safety who cares.
So please dont state the FAA is supporting you via there signature.
So please dont state the FAA is supporting you via there signature.
09-07-2019 | 12:02 PM
#477
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Joined: Jul 2017
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From: CRJ9 CA
In addition I’ve had gate agents tell me D6UJ isn’t a jump seat listing. Because it doesn’t say FDJ. Allowing us to list AAC FDJ would cure it. Some gate agents will jump through the hoops to verify CASS with AAC and put in that notation until a supervisor comes and says sorry that’s not allowed.
We list on AA exclusively through myidtravel as pilot commuting. The net result spits out a D6UJ on the other end, which is lumped together with every other OAL pilot by TOC. Most GA's will not take us at the gate either, tell us to go list online, then they are 'too busy' to check us in because this is often done last minute, which invariably leads to us missing a flight on top of losing it to some random pilot from a carrier with no affiliation to AA. Then, if we sacrifice our AAC listing to switch to a D6UJ and a seat goes empty in the back because we can't have 2 listings, someone with lower priority than us could get the seat and we still lose the jumpseat to an offline if they checked in first.
09-07-2019 | 12:06 PM
#478
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Joined: Dec 2011
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The AA pilot group is being ridiculous here.
Does not one see how this reciprocal policy isn't being applied reciprocally?
Who cares what the FAA thinks? Why not just implement a policy that is the same both ways. Ie, AA pilots get pref on AAC flights above other randoms and AAC get pref on AA above other randoms. Doesn't hurt AA pilots and gives a benefit to whole group.
I think Delta does it this why and their reasonable attitude might be why they are making bank over there.
If AA pilots don't want to give AAC pilots any pref on AA planes, then AAC pilots don't give any pref to AA. That's fine too, but AA pilots should own that position.
All the rest about systems / FAA is just excuses - either the union cares and will put pressure on company to get something worked out or the union doesn't. Can't imagine the company not wanting its pilot groups to get where they want to anyways - so companies interest would seem to be aligned with Republic pilots - the only folks fighting for a me first -> no cookie for anyone else seems to be the AA folks. And for what purpose? They are still first on AA planes as it should be.
Does not one see how this reciprocal policy isn't being applied reciprocally?
Who cares what the FAA thinks? Why not just implement a policy that is the same both ways. Ie, AA pilots get pref on AAC flights above other randoms and AAC get pref on AA above other randoms. Doesn't hurt AA pilots and gives a benefit to whole group.
I think Delta does it this why and their reasonable attitude might be why they are making bank over there.
If AA pilots don't want to give AAC pilots any pref on AA planes, then AAC pilots don't give any pref to AA. That's fine too, but AA pilots should own that position.
All the rest about systems / FAA is just excuses - either the union cares and will put pressure on company to get something worked out or the union doesn't. Can't imagine the company not wanting its pilot groups to get where they want to anyways - so companies interest would seem to be aligned with Republic pilots - the only folks fighting for a me first -> no cookie for anyone else seems to be the AA folks. And for what purpose? They are still first on AA planes as it should be.
09-07-2019 | 12:40 PM
#479
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 729
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From: ERJ 170
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