Judge Silver rules
01-11-2014 | 06:10 AM
#41
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From: A320 Capt
What should you have done? I guess my inclination would be to say you should have abided by your original obligation set forth in the AWA/USAir merger. Mediation followed by binding arbitration. But that argument has been beaten to death, dug up from it's grave and beaten some more.
The MOU was voted in overwhelmingly by both sides. It was a masterful act of trickery. Sold as having no bearing on the West's right to the NIC or the East's right to fight the NIC. The truth was obviously very different. Syzmanski (sp?) knew what he was doing all along.
I don't think you seem like a bad guy. You are not nearly as nasty of vehement as many East pilots on other boards. But it sounds like you have some time to go at this company. I don't think you can imagine how sh#t upon the West feels. 7 years of being bent over by the detritus that runs USAPA. The cockpits won't be segregated forever. Might be uncomfortable for the rest of your career trying to convince the guy in your right seat that you just wanted what was fair, etc.
Probably the first time in Aviation history that this kind of damage to pilot families' futures has been inflicted by fellow pilots and not management.
The MOU was voted in overwhelmingly by both sides. It was a masterful act of trickery. Sold as having no bearing on the West's right to the NIC or the East's right to fight the NIC. The truth was obviously very different. Syzmanski (sp?) knew what he was doing all along.
I don't think you seem like a bad guy. You are not nearly as nasty of vehement as many East pilots on other boards. But it sounds like you have some time to go at this company. I don't think you can imagine how sh#t upon the West feels. 7 years of being bent over by the detritus that runs USAPA. The cockpits won't be segregated forever. Might be uncomfortable for the rest of your career trying to convince the guy in your right seat that you just wanted what was fair, etc.
Probably the first time in Aviation history that this kind of damage to pilot families' futures has been inflicted by fellow pilots and not management.
Are you a west guy?
There was no trickery on the MOU, except for the west. They KNEW what it said. It's clear from the trial. They voted for it thinking it would complete the TA and implement the NIC. They screwed up.
I have just over 16 years to go and I will do fine. I've already flown with 3 west pilots and have west friends. If anyone has an issue flying with me, then we won't.
01-11-2014 | 06:12 AM
#42
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From: A320 Capt
01-11-2014 | 06:26 AM
#43
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I think just collectively stomping your feet and refusing to abide by your written agreements is a poor excuse. Just my $.02. Give your West friends a call. Ask them what they really think now.
Yes I am a West pilot. If you read the transcripts as you said you did then you would know that the MOU was presented differently to the West and the East. That was admitted by your own counsel during the trial and acknowledged by Silver. However it wasn't enough to trigger her definition of a DFR. You are right the West lawyers screwed up.
But that doesn't make your position righteous. No more sour grapes here. Doesn't help anything. Good luck with your remaining 16 years. Hope we can all recoup some of the staggering financial losses suffered over the last decade. The temptation is to wish financial ill upon the East but that would just hurt the West pilots, for whom i have great respect, as well. So best of luck to you.
Yes I am a West pilot. If you read the transcripts as you said you did then you would know that the MOU was presented differently to the West and the East. That was admitted by your own counsel during the trial and acknowledged by Silver. However it wasn't enough to trigger her definition of a DFR. You are right the West lawyers screwed up.
But that doesn't make your position righteous. No more sour grapes here. Doesn't help anything. Good luck with your remaining 16 years. Hope we can all recoup some of the staggering financial losses suffered over the last decade. The temptation is to wish financial ill upon the East but that would just hurt the West pilots, for whom i have great respect, as well. So best of luck to you.
01-11-2014 | 06:27 AM
#44
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All unions are a farce. You think USAPA gives two cents about the "third listers"? You think they'll be "fairly represented"? Of course not. The same is true for the APA and their junior FOs. At least that's what my AA FO buddies tell me. This entire industry is all about "semper fi...F the other guy." Don't act so shocked.
01-11-2014 | 07:14 AM
#46
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You can type in all CAPS but that doesn't make it true. The ruling itself admits USAir East misrepresented the meaning of 10(h) in the MOU, so don't act like West agreed to drop Nic because they approved the MOU.
01-11-2014 | 07:16 AM
#47
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but i'm sure this stain will remain with the east pilots for the rest of their careers. I imagine most of them don't care. You successfully used your power of union control to screw the under represented. Your fellow pilots industry wide have seen your true colors. You gain some numbers on the list but leave behind a shameful legacy. I'm sure your kids will be proud.
01-11-2014 | 07:18 AM
#48
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The agreement (the t/a). Was followed. Everyone agreed to follow it. Everyone read the mou. Even AOL said " is usapa finally smarter than us". They knew they had maybe a 50/50 shot with their plan. And they rolled the dice. Just like they rolled the dice with the chants of " you won't get 200 cards"
You were warned what could be the outcome. The NIC needed a jcba. One was never finalized.
The excuse of not knowing is weak. Almost like signing a contract in your personal life and then crying you didn't know what that contract said.
Will the west be stapled? Nope doubtful. BUT 30% of the east won't be stapled either....
You were warned what could be the outcome. The NIC needed a jcba. One was never finalized.
The excuse of not knowing is weak. Almost like signing a contract in your personal life and then crying you didn't know what that contract said.
Will the west be stapled? Nope doubtful. BUT 30% of the east won't be stapled either....
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