Originally Posted by teddyballgame

There are several other implications to the international flying if these concessions are handed over on a silver platter to management, as every other one has been throughout the years.

Relief on FAR 117 will result in not only more two-pilot trans-Atlantic trips, but possibly more two-pilot trans-Atlantic legs.

I understand that some carriers use "floating" IRO's; that is, an IRO is only assigned to legs that are actually scheduled for under eight hours. (For example, an eastbound leg from the US to the EU might only be scheduled for 7:40, while the westbound is scheduled for 8:20. Only that westbound leg would have an IRO assigned to it.)

Furthermore, I have also heard that some carriers actually DH IRO's on legs that don't require one as an active crewmember. How would you like to sit in the middle coach seat of a 757 for seven hours -- at half pay?

With regard to bases losing flying, although Parker has mentioned that he wouldn't put one airline's crewmembers in the other airline's hubs/bases (as CO did in ORD and SFO, before their SLI was completed), nothing would prevent trips from being operated, say, MIA-LHR-CLT-CDG-MIA; or PHL-FCO-JFK-MAD-PHL.

And for those who are thinking "It doesn't affect me" because you don't fly international, well how many times has that attitude come back to bite pilots who voted "Yes" on contracts with crappy reserve systems or below-regional-standard pay for smaller mainline aircraft, only to find out later that it did affect them?

Fewer international pilots, as a result of diminished staffing requirements and/or a less desirable QOL on international service, means more domestic pilots getting bumped from left seat to right seat, from blockholder to reserve, from Group II to Group I, and from Group I to you-know-where.

Alas, I realize that these points have been offered in vain. I agree with the above posters in that we all know that in the end, the "Let My Daddy Vote" pants-wetters will prevail.

'Always have. 'Always will.

Originally Posted by bigscrillywilli

Yep, unfortunately this turd will pass by a wide margin if it goes to a vote. "Want some candy kid??"

Originally Posted by justjack

I think you are right. We have to know that no matter how this works out, no matter how we vote, we have all been played. I keep thinking of the "marshmallow test." After several decades the research suggest that it was not so much about instant gratification but rather a response to authority. While it would be easy to jump in and think that this is all about instant gratification, which it certainly is to some extent, we should look at the bigger implications. Pilots have never really thought of themselves as labor. They might vote Democrat as a group, but individually they vote Republican. In their heart of hearts they see themselves as more like management types. They do not have powerful unions. They never see it coming from management. Never. They thought that the MOU was an agreement to get through the merger. Once merged, powerful, and making tons of money, the company would be grateful and pay pilots what they deserved. Pilots are Charlie Brown to management's Lucy. I have no doubt that management's offer was crafted precisely by people who know the psyche of pilots. While it might be easy to say that this group will take the offer because they are tired and have so few years to catch up, this does not entirely explain the offer nor the response to the offer. Someday Pilots are going to have to get real about who they are in the scheme of things and know that nothing will ever be given to them out of fairness or because they deserve it.

Originally Posted by Just trust them

$450,000 pure profit for each pilot estimated for one year, 2015.

Yet the 'negotiations' are concessionary. Anyone who's thinking of acquiescing to Doug's demands is a fool.

Originally Posted by eaglefly

$450,000 profit for each pilot for 2015 ?

I must have missed that part in the proposals.

Originally Posted by Just trust them

One of the lower-end Analyst earnings estimate.

About $750,000 per hour profit.

$6,500,000,000 per year profit for 2015. Profit, not revenues.

That's an average of $465,000 profit per pilot.

For one year, not the term of the Contract.

$465,000.

Originally Posted by Just trust them

One of the lower-end Analyst earnings estimate.

About $750,000 per hour profit.

$6,500,000,000 per year profit for 2015. Profit, not revenues.

That's an average of $465,000 profit per pilot.

For one year, not the term of the Contract.

$465,000.

Originally Posted by eaglefly

But....but....but, Doug said we don't have much of an effect on day-to-day profits and that's why profit-sharing was out of the question.

He wouldn't lie.......would he ?

Originally Posted by CamYZ125

I'm pretty sure there are other parts/people at the airline that contribute to the airline's profit, not JUST the pilots. So that number is arbitrary and useless.