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Good perspective from former APA President

Old 01-22-2015, 07:51 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by CamYZ125 View Post
Wait, that's the plan? Give everything up for a few bucks, then hope we can get everything back when Parker retires?

Ha.
My point was that we are stuck with this mngt - labor relationship until he leaves.
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:57 PM
  #12  
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Look at this guys history. APA turned down several industry leading contracts under this guy only to never return to those levels until now.
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Old 01-22-2015, 08:42 PM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by Skubajet View Post
To answer your question, its once he retires and we get a new CEO. Look at the companies that have the best contracts...dal SWA...ual..and I was told they got what they got to keep the peace. But it has mostly to do with management. I really think the vote right now - its about risk. I personally as well as most AA pilots are not willing to risk losing 1.7B....especially with the management at the wheel with the track record they have. Its an unfortunate reality.
Well, then you and most AA pilots are willing to work under a less than regional level contract for no less than 5-7 yrs. That's pathetic. This is the perfect example of the "chess to checkers" adage, and you aren't the ones at the chess board.
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Old 01-22-2015, 09:17 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by inline five View Post
Look at this guys history. APA turned down several industry leading contracts under this guy only to never return to those levels until now.
His term as President started in early 2001 and he left office in the summer of 2004.

The APA president doesn't set policy or vote on policy.

The only contract talks during his term was the 2003 agreement.

To the best of my knowledge APA did not turn down any "industry leading contracts" between 2001-2004.
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Old 01-23-2015, 01:56 AM
  #15  
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He makes excellent points. I have been troubled by the companies desire to extend the amendable date.
Mr Parker and Mr Kirby suspect that DAL will get a significant raise that will increase costs if we stay with the MTA. With the present offer we are front loaded, but risk being well below DAL for an extended period of time. That is a huge cost advantage to AAG. Back of napkin math of about 300m a year.

Also, they want to have as much flexibility as possible regarding any health care costs.

I started out yes, went to no,went to yes, and am back to no.
Not for HBT, dom/int, or anything else except the two year extra wait on the next contract. By then, we may be in a downturn and would not get better rates.

If DAL ALPA says modify PS into a fixed salary increase of x percent, we are golden.
And- you all know DAL does not want to be at a cost disadvantage to AAG.
If we vote no, I fully expect DAL to finish up in time for our Jan catch up.
If we vote yes that probably will not happen and they will try to lower the wage gap.

Its weird,but a yes vote windfall for us puts downward pressure on DAL pay.
A no vote slight pay increase til Jan2016 puts upward wage pressure on DAL and AAG. That says volumes about how out of synch we are.
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Old 01-23-2015, 03:34 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Ekpt40 View Post
He makes excellent points. I have been troubled by the companies desire to extend the amendable date.
Mr Parker and Mr Kirby suspect that DAL will get a significant raise that will increase costs if we stay with the MTA. With the present offer we are front loaded, but risk being well below DAL for an extended period of time. That is a huge cost advantage to AAG. Back of napkin math of about 300m a year.

Also, they want to have as much flexibility as possible regarding any health care costs.

I started out yes, went to no,went to yes, and am back to no.
Not for HBT, dom/int, or anything else except the two year extra wait on the next contract. By then, we may be in a downturn and would not get better rates.

If DAL ALPA says modify PS into a fixed salary increase of x percent, we are golden.
And- you all know DAL does not want to be at a cost disadvantage to AAG.
If we vote no, I fully expect DAL to finish up in time for our Jan catch up.
If we vote yes that probably will not happen and they will try to lower the wage gap.

Its weird,but a yes vote windfall for us puts downward pressure on DAL pay.
A no vote slight pay increase til Jan2016 puts upward wage pressure on DAL and AAG. That says volumes about how out of synch we are.
Yep. That's right, the downward pressure is the NEW "pattern bargaining" strategy of the APA. It was only a matter of time, anyway.
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Old 01-23-2015, 08:29 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Ekpt40 View Post
He makes excellent points. I have been troubled by the companies desire to extend the amendable date.
Mr Parker and Mr Kirby suspect that DAL will get a significant raise that will increase costs if we stay with the MTA. With the present offer we are front loaded, but risk being well below DAL for an extended period of time. That is a huge cost advantage to AAG. Back of napkin math of about 300m a year.

Also, they want to have as much flexibility as possible regarding any health care costs.

I started out yes, went to no,went to yes, and am back to no.
Not for HBT, dom/int, or anything else except the two year extra wait on the next contract. By then, we may be in a downturn and would not get better rates.

If DAL ALPA says modify PS into a fixed salary increase of x percent, we are golden.
And- you all know DAL does not want to be at a cost disadvantage to AAG.
If we vote no, I fully expect DAL to finish up in time for our Jan catch up.
If we vote yes that probably will not happen and they will try to lower the wage gap.

Its weird,but a yes vote windfall for us puts downward pressure on DAL pay.
A no vote slight pay increase til Jan2016 puts upward wage pressure on DAL and AAG. That says volumes about how out of synch we are.
+1

Well said.
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Old 01-23-2015, 10:00 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Skubajet View Post
I disagree. I personally feel that DP won't cave in to the pilots wants to prove that he won't cave to APA. Watch confessions of a union buster. Its about control...that what's important..not keeping pilots happy. If he gives us everything we want, we win and he is too smart for that to happen.

Everyone blames APA for not being united. That may be part if it but bottom line is our management is the elephant in the room. Delta wouldn't have the contract they have if it weren't for Anderson and his philosophy on happy employees = successful airline.

IMHO, its way to risky to chance losing the 1.7B.An extra 100k over 5 yeArs pays my kids college education or will be worth north of 500k after years in investments. Get the payrates now since its a sure thing and and slowly work at getting work rules back.
Once again look beyond the dollar amount. That pay raise is not realistic. The road shows are saying how they are unsure about the health insurance language alone. I have heard numbers as high as 10k deductibles and increased premiums with this proposal. The projected 23% pay raise is potentially only around 12%. The language is bad and even the negotiators do not know what is going to happen. That alone is a huge gamble. I don't see any guaranteed pay raise that can be pinned down with this jcba b/c of so many uncertainties. On the other hand with green book I know exactly the minimum increases of pay over it's life, potential higher increases and earlier section 6 negotiations.
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Old 01-23-2015, 10:48 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Skubajet View Post
To answer your question, its once he retires and we get a new CEO. Look at the companies that have the best contracts...dal SWA...ual..and I was told they got what they got to keep the peace. But it has mostly to do with management. I really think the vote right now - its about risk. I personally as well as most AA pilots are not willing to risk losing 1.7B....especially with the management at the wheel with the track record they have. Its an unfortunate reality.
A new CEO as young as he is ? Well, I suppose he could get bagged again and slam into a tree at 90 mph this time, but if that's your plan, it's no wonder were sunk. That's not a bad plan, it's NO plan.
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Old 01-23-2015, 10:49 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by inline five View Post
Look at this guys history. APA turned down several industry leading contracts under this guy only to never return to those levels until now.
There is FAR less bias in his assessment then in yours.
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