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Old 07-12-2020, 08:58 AM
  #1751  
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This was a informative discussion on logging time.

I have another question for the board, how do y'all log instrument time?

For example, crossing the Atlantic, I'm not navigating VFR, is it all instrument time? Even if it's severe clear?

What about when you're at altitude and it's clear, but there's a cloud deck beneath you, you can't see the ground, all instrument time?
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Old 07-12-2020, 09:03 AM
  #1752  
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Originally Posted by APCbot View Post
This was a informative discussion on logging time.

I have another question for the board, how do y'all log instrument time?

For example, crossing the Atlantic, I'm not navigating VFR, is it all instrument time? Even if it's severe clear?

What about when you're at altitude and it's clear, but there's a cloud deck beneath you, you can't see the ground, all instrument time?
Is this serious???

You don't navigate VFR...you FILE IFR and then LOG IFR time when using the instruments as your primary reference while IN IFR conditions
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Old 07-12-2020, 09:05 AM
  #1753  
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61.51(g)1. IFR conditions are defined in 1.1.
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Old 07-12-2020, 09:05 AM
  #1754  
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Originally Posted by Liketoflyjets View Post
Is this serious???

You don't navigate VFR...you FILE IFR and then LOG IFR time when using the instruments as your primary reference while IN IFR conditions
I agree, but you'd be surprised what I've heard pilots say when asked about this.

Are you only logging instrument time when you're actually in the clouds?
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Old 07-12-2020, 09:12 AM
  #1755  
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Originally Posted by 6Badger9 View Post
Doesn’t matter if there’s only 2 pilot seats or 10 pilot seats in the flight deck; log the entire flight. If there’s a serious emergency, you’re apart of the crew and you better believe you will be helping with whatever the problem is, no matter which seat you’re occupying. Whether that’s helping with checklists, talking to company, etc...

Just my 2 cents.
Are the FA part of the crew?
Are the maintenance part of the crew?
Hell, are the pilots who are passengers part of the crew?

Are you crazy!?!?!?!?!?! I can't believe it's 2020 and this is what people are showing ignorance on.

I had no idea there were people out there logging PIC/SIC time when you were asleep in the bunk on a 10 man crew.....no wonder you had 10k hours at your post-foreign carrier interview at atlas....

Guys - the 2nd FO who is asleep in the bunk CAN NOT LOG SIC time...THAT IS SPELLED OUT CLEARLY IN THE REG
You have to "ACT AS SECOND IN COMMAND".....it clearly says "...during which he acts as second in command of an aircraft". You are not "second in command" of an aircraft when you are dead asleep in the bunk and some OTHER dude in the front IS acting as second in command.

You do realize you can't have 3 dudes be second in command at once, right? One guy is PIC, one guy is SIC, and the next guy is THIRD in COMMAND, and so on and so forth...

Again...clearly says you can log SIC when "acting as second in command"
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Old 07-12-2020, 09:14 AM
  #1756  
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Originally Posted by Liketoflyjets View Post
Are the FA part of the crew?
Are the maintenance part of the crew?
Hell, are the pilots who are passengers part of the crew?

Are you crazy!?!?!?!?!?! I can't believe it's 2020 and this is what people are showing ignorance on.

I had no idea there were people out there logging PIC/SIC time when you were asleep in the bunk on a 10 man crew.....no wonder you had 10k hours at your post-foreign carrier interview at atlas....

Guys - the 2nd FO who is asleep in the bunk CAN NOT LOG SIC time...THAT IS SPELLED OUT CLEARLY IN THE REG
You have to "ACT AS SECOND IN COMMAND".....it clearly says "...during which he acts as second in command of an aircraft". You are not "second in command" of an aircraft when you are dead asleep in the bunk and some OTHER dude in the front IS acting as second in command.

You do realize you can't have 3 dudes be second in command at once, right? One guy is PIC, one guy is SIC, and the next guy is THIRD in COMMAND, and so on and so forth...

Again...clearly says you can log SIC when "acting as second in command"
I agree with you, but apparently UPS/FedEx interviewers don't.
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Old 07-12-2020, 09:17 AM
  #1757  
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Originally Posted by APCbot View Post
I agree, but you'd be surprised what I've heard pilots say when asked about this.

Are you only logging instrument time when you're actually in the clouds?
YES

Log instrument time when using the ADI to maintain aircraft control.
It has nothing to do with navigation. Above the clouds and using GPS does not equal instrument time.
Actual instrument conditions does not equal IFR weather, but IFR CONDITIONS..i.e. you in the soup

reference the Moonless night Letter from the FAA

"According to the Moonless Night Letter, “‘simulated’ instrument conditions occur when the pilot’s vision outside of the aircraft is intentionally restricted, such as by a hood or goggles.” “Actual” instrument flight conditions exist “when some outside conditions make it necessary for the pilot to use the aircraft instruments in order to maintain adequate control over the aircraft. Typically, these conditions involve adverse weather conditions.”"
https://www.ifr-magazine.com/techniq...al-conditions/
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Old 07-12-2020, 09:43 AM
  #1758  
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Originally Posted by Liketoflyjets View Post
YES

Log instrument time when using the ADI to maintain aircraft control.
It has nothing to do with navigation. Above the clouds and using GPS does not equal instrument time.
Actual instrument conditions does not equal IFR weather, but IFR CONDITIONS..i.e. you in the soup

reference the Moonless night Letter from the FAA

"According to the Moonless Night Letter, “‘simulated’ instrument conditions occur when the pilot’s vision outside of the aircraft is intentionally restricted, such as by a hood or goggles.” “Actual” instrument flight conditions exist “when some outside conditions make it necessary for the pilot to use the aircraft instruments in order to maintain adequate control over the aircraft. Typically, these conditions involve adverse weather conditions.”"
https://www.ifr-magazine.com/techniq...al-conditions/
So what are your thoughts on pilots who just log a blanket 15% of their flight time as instrument time?
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Old 07-12-2020, 09:50 AM
  #1759  
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Make sure you log cross country, night time, and complex also. You never know what the next interviewer will want. (sarcasm emoji)
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Old 07-12-2020, 09:50 AM
  #1760  
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Originally Posted by Liketoflyjets View Post
Are the FA part of the crew?
Are the maintenance part of the crew?
Hell, are the pilots who are passengers part of the crew?

Are you crazy!?!?!?!?!?! I can't believe it's 2020 and this is what people are showing ignorance on.

I had no idea there were people out there logging PIC/SIC time when you were asleep in the bunk on a 10 man crew.....no wonder you had 10k hours at your post-foreign carrier interview at atlas....

Guys - the 2nd FO who is asleep in the bunk CAN NOT LOG SIC time...THAT IS SPELLED OUT CLEARLY IN THE REG
You have to "ACT AS SECOND IN COMMAND".....it clearly says "...during which he acts as second in command of an aircraft". You are not "second in command" of an aircraft when you are dead asleep in the bunk and some OTHER dude in the front IS acting as second in command.

You do realize you can't have 3 dudes be second in command at once, right? One guy is PIC, one guy is SIC, and the next guy is THIRD in COMMAND, and so on and so forth...

Again...clearly says you can log SIC when "acting as second in command"


I meant logging the total time of the flight, not SIC.
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