744driver

Not true...I read this very thread in the early days without a membership...and I just read it again a few minutes ago (I logged out, and opened a new browser window, and opened a new page, and opened this thread). It is absolutely available to lurk without being a member or without logging in.

I stand by what I said...that you can read without an account, and without logging in. You just can't post.

Whale Driver

Well, I can not. I am on Win 7, are you on an Apple?

Polarfr8dog

First, I think this topic DOES belong on the Newhire forum as it's gives potential candidates a way to view the ins and outs from a line pilot point of view. Having said that, I find AtlasSlave's comment very disturbing and here's why:

I don't consider myself a divider IF the union leadership is doing something behind the backs of the membership that only represents a chosen few and sort of reminds me of "backdoor" deals that WERE done with the JCBA. The profit sharing BS is just one of them I heard straight from the horse's mouth where he happened to be out of the office when some of the guys decided to vote on it and that way they new it would pass. But that's in the past.

We not only owe it ourselves but to each and every crewmember to take an interest into what our elected leadership is doing and if you don't agree with something by ALL MEANS question it.

An awesome read on this very subject is The Forgotten 500 by Gregory A. Freeman. And yes, it is Non-Fiction (true). For those of you that won't take the time to read it in a nutshell during World War II, a bunch of Airmen bailed out into Yugoslavia. At the time there were two different leaders wanting control over that country after the war. Well, there were moles established in the English intelligence offices that steered Britain towards the Communist leader and supplies were cut off from the leader that was helping save and take care of these Airmen. Eventually, everyone was rescued but only because of secret operations to get it done and avoid the Germans. Again, a very good read to show how if you don't question your leadership things can go awry.

As I said earlier, I'm not a divider but a person that will stand up and hold the line. There are a few here that know me personally and know I stand behind my Union. However, as the saying goes keep your friends close and your enemies closer. And just because they're your elected leaders doesn't mean you have to follow them down the proverbial path. What kind of great country would the United States be if our ancestors agreed with everything England wanted way back in the day. Did they call them dividers??? Nope, think they called them patriots and stood up for their beliefs of freedom of religion, separation of church and state to name a few.

In Solidarity

744driver

Eeew, windows?!!...I gave up that bad habit about three years ago.

MacBook Air user now with Firefox (I absolutely hate Safari!!)

ATCsaidDoWhat

You should be upset at your own inability to research facts before you make posts with half baked information. There are several plans, NONE of which are controlled by the Teamsters that are in excellent shape and extremely well funded.

Because the company does not control them as with older, traditional airline plans, they don't "go away" in bankruptcy like traditional plans controlled by companies.

If the ExCo is looking, they are likely looking at Western Conference and or the Defined Benefits Plans. Both are very secure and have guaranteed payouts because they cannot be used by an airline or group as collateral for anything.

The "corruption" talk is cute and may make someone out to be the BMOC at the bar, but to people who understand, it just makes you out as someone who likes to hear themselves talk.

For all the expertise being floated about lately and referencing other carriers CBA's, it is interesting to note that the experts have missed the fact that those carriers have had contracts in place for as many as 50 years in some cases and the place they are now is nowhere near where they were in their second contract; let alone a first combined contract. The experts see current day and assume it's always been that way.

Before anyone goes shooting down a pension plan, they should first look at the plan being considered, time to vesting and payout at regular or early retirement.

And for someone...anyone...who claims to be connected or doing union work to go out and leak half baked and inaccurate information about what may be in process...that's pathetic. Anyone who has ever done serious union work knows full well that discussions on issues are never linear; they take many twists and turns before an outcome is reached.

Want to disagree with the leadership? Fine. Do it with facts, not rumors you can't back up. And have the backbone to stand up, put your name and face with the charges and defend them in public instead of behind a keyboard and avatar.

This place has seen enough of that over the years and doesn't need any more. If you don't like the place, leave. Plenty of folks said more than once that it's a different type of flying. It's clear that a lot of folks have come here for a paycheck and a rating, waiting for a legacy job to open up so they can go fly a 3/4 schedule.

Go. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Go smile and do the shuck and jive for managements that roll up and down with the economy, chasing the bubble. What they have now, they will give back in ten years or less when the economy cycles as it always does.

Meanwhile back at Atlas they'll still have a management team that figured out how to run an airline without putting all their financial eggs in one basket. And a stronger, mature third or fourth contract and stable growth that is not tied to the traveling public and their disposable income...or lack thereof.

744driver

I have said before...and I'll say it again...

ATCsaidDoWhat knows of what he speaks...his credentials are enviable. I will stand by his comments any time.

Nicely stated, ATC.

C5nwhaleguy

Ive seen this somewhere before ^^

Spike , Chester and Sylvester - YouTube

Whalefr8

Nicely said. I might add "want to disagree with the leadership? Fine. Do it with facts - AND DO IT TO THEIR FACE. Ask them your hard questions."

As a committee chair, posting your ire and something you heard from another crew member; that one of the ExCo may have been possibly discussing; and posting it as a FACT, that you are aware of because of your high involvement in the union, is chicken guano.

If you have a question, go ask the guys. They have proven time and again that they answer their phones 24/7. There is never a time that one of them is not available.

C5nwhaleguy

I think what many of the "dividers" are trying to say is that we don't trust the current exco and how the last contract was molded behind closed doors without a vote from the member ship....C'mon you can't be that blind...NO ONE VOTED...just elected representatives and that should scare the crap out of the rest of us!!!

WE should be able to vote on all issues regardless of exco leadership as WE are the membership he is "supposed" to represent not speak for inclusively. PERIOD. I want everything out in the open and not behind closed doors. I want the collective and VOTING membership to matter more than the exco!

ANy and all things need to be voted on and not by just those appointed to represent during negotiations.

For those that want in the door, pay attention as this is what you are in for. if you want the thread title changed to pie in the sky go for it!

744driver

Wow, that is harsh, C5...kinda surprised. But I am a big boy, I can handle it!!