Atlas Air Hiring
06-26-2014 | 06:19 PM
#8831
On Reserve
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
And for someone...anyone...who claims to be connected or doing union work to go out and leak half baked and inaccurate information about what may be in process...that's pathetic. Anyone who has ever done serious union work knows full well that discussions on issues are never linear; they take many twists and turns before an outcome is reached.
Want to disagree with the leadership? Fine. Do it with facts, not rumors you can't back up. And have the backbone to stand up, put your name and face with the charges and defend them in public instead of behind a keyboard and avatar.
Want to disagree with the leadership? Fine. Do it with facts, not rumors you can't back up. And have the backbone to stand up, put your name and face with the charges and defend them in public instead of behind a keyboard and avatar.
As a committee chair, posting your ire and something you heard from another crew member; that one of the ExCo may have been possibly discussing; and posting it as a FACT, that you are aware of because of your high involvement in the union, is chicken guano.
If you have a question, go ask the guys. They have proven time and again that they answer their phones 24/7. There is never a time that one of them is not available.
06-26-2014 | 06:23 PM
#8832
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
I think what many of the "dividers" are trying to say is that we don't trust the current exco and how the last contract was molded behind closed doors without a vote from the member ship....C'mon you can't be that blind...NO ONE VOTED...just elected representatives and that should scare the crap out of the rest of us!!!
WE should be able to vote on all issues regardless of exco leadership as WE are the membership he is "supposed" to represent not speak for inclusively. PERIOD. I want everything out in the open and not behind closed doors. I want the collective and VOTING membership to matter more than the exco!
ANy and all things need to be voted on and not by just those appointed to represent during negotiations.
For those that want in the door, pay attention as this is what you are in for. if you want the thread title changed to pie in the sky go for it!
WE should be able to vote on all issues regardless of exco leadership as WE are the membership he is "supposed" to represent not speak for inclusively. PERIOD. I want everything out in the open and not behind closed doors. I want the collective and VOTING membership to matter more than the exco!
ANy and all things need to be voted on and not by just those appointed to represent during negotiations.
For those that want in the door, pay attention as this is what you are in for. if you want the thread title changed to pie in the sky go for it!
06-26-2014 | 06:28 PM
#8833
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 0
From: B767 CA
06-26-2014 | 06:34 PM
#8834
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
BTW, Surverys are great but individual voting is better. Surveys aren't worth the keyboard strokes until they are put to an Entire membership vote! thats what the guys who've had contracts for 50 years wanted and have. Power in the hands of the few is a scary concept and the elder atlas guys should have learned that by now.
06-26-2014 | 07:11 PM
#8835
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
i think the problem is union structure. Many of us have other union experience elsewhere that piggy backed on legacy contract, work rules, and union excos. We voted on everything and a voice. But that doesn't happen here, and if you disagree or lack the details because you weren't the select/ELECTED few behind the closed door you're labled as above. You walk and talk solidarity but leadership is also earned by and given from those willing to follow whom feel that you've got their collective best interest at heart. Not backroom deals but out in the open votes for all available options.
06-26-2014 | 07:12 PM
#8836
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,100
Likes: 0
From: C47 PIC/747-400 SIC
I like you guys, our friendly competition, and find it refreshing to see the good , and the bad, and all the bones of contention being debated in the light of day, it never hurts to put the whole picture , warts and all out there. Cheers , Godspeed.
06-26-2014 | 07:24 PM
#8837
On Reserve
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Left Seat B747-400/-8
First, I think this topic DOES belong on the Newhire forum as it's gives potential candidates a way to view the ins and outs from a line pilot point of view. Having said that, I find AtlasSlave's comment very disturbing and here's why:
I don't consider myself a divider IF the union leadership is doing something behind the backs of the membership that only represents a chosen few and sort of reminds me of "backdoor" deals that WERE done with the JCBA. The profit sharing BS is just one of them I heard straight from the horse's mouth where he happened to be out of the office when some of the guys decided to vote on it and that way they new it would pass. But that's in the past.
We not only owe it ourselves but to each and every crewmember to take an interest into what our elected leadership is doing and if you don't agree with something by ALL MEANS question it.
An awesome read on this very subject is The Forgotten 500 by Gregory A. Freeman. And yes, it is Non-Fiction (true). For those of you that won't take the time to read it in a nutshell during World War II, a bunch of Airmen bailed out into Yugoslavia. At the time there were two different leaders wanting control over that country after the war. Well, there were moles established in the English intelligence offices that steered Britain towards the Communist leader and supplies were cut off from the leader that was helping save and take care of these Airmen. Eventually, everyone was rescued but only because of secret operations to get it done and avoid the Germans. Again, a very good read to show how if you don't question your leadership things can go awry.
As I said earlier, I'm not a divider but a person that will stand up and hold the line. There are a few here that know me personally and know I stand behind my Union. However, as the saying goes keep your friends close and your enemies closer. And just because they're your elected leaders doesn't mean you have to follow them down the proverbial path. What kind of great country would the United States be if our ancestors agreed with everything England wanted way back in the day. Did they call them dividers??? Nope, think they called them patriots and stood up for their beliefs of freedom of religion, separation of church and state to name a few.
In Solidarity
I don't consider myself a divider IF the union leadership is doing something behind the backs of the membership that only represents a chosen few and sort of reminds me of "backdoor" deals that WERE done with the JCBA. The profit sharing BS is just one of them I heard straight from the horse's mouth where he happened to be out of the office when some of the guys decided to vote on it and that way they new it would pass. But that's in the past.
We not only owe it ourselves but to each and every crewmember to take an interest into what our elected leadership is doing and if you don't agree with something by ALL MEANS question it.
An awesome read on this very subject is The Forgotten 500 by Gregory A. Freeman. And yes, it is Non-Fiction (true). For those of you that won't take the time to read it in a nutshell during World War II, a bunch of Airmen bailed out into Yugoslavia. At the time there were two different leaders wanting control over that country after the war. Well, there were moles established in the English intelligence offices that steered Britain towards the Communist leader and supplies were cut off from the leader that was helping save and take care of these Airmen. Eventually, everyone was rescued but only because of secret operations to get it done and avoid the Germans. Again, a very good read to show how if you don't question your leadership things can go awry.
As I said earlier, I'm not a divider but a person that will stand up and hold the line. There are a few here that know me personally and know I stand behind my Union. However, as the saying goes keep your friends close and your enemies closer. And just because they're your elected leaders doesn't mean you have to follow them down the proverbial path. What kind of great country would the United States be if our ancestors agreed with everything England wanted way back in the day. Did they call them dividers??? Nope, think they called them patriots and stood up for their beliefs of freedom of religion, separation of church and state to name a few.
In Solidarity
There was no negotiation to vote on for this JCBA (SCBA?) as you put it. Two approved CBA's were amalgamated and therefore no vote. None required. This next one will be voted on without question.
We agree on way more than we disagree. Please read my definition of a divider again after reading your response. PLEASE question your leaders, but actively working against them is what I am talking about. Blind faith is stupid, and we agree on this.
Union politics is not like those of our country's government. In the union, we are one group and one group only; no political parties. Our elections are to decide who among us will speak for us; all of us. There is no opposition party that is expected to work in an adversarial role within our politics and against our leaders; we have management for that and it is enough.
We are the union and it is a team sport.
06-27-2014 | 12:55 AM
#8838
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,306
Likes: 44
AQP will bring rules on the process that currently are sorely lacking. V1 cut and you fail or do you get another chance or even some training depends on the time remaining or even the individual Sim Check Airman. Under AQP it is train to proficiency even during the validation of maneuvers period, much more appropriate at this level of the game and does not generate pink slips like the process in place now. Just like the other major airlines in the industry. I agree we are not paid enough to go to training, and it must be addressed in the next contract.
A divider is one who disagrees with the leadership and actively works against those duly elected officials empowered by the membership. Anyone is, obviously, welcome to disagree. When a member takes on work for the leadership and then actively, and inappropriately releases privileged information, that person is a divider due to the seeds of doubt that are sown into the membership from a person the membership considers to be in a position of trust. If a person does not agree with the leadership, fine, but do not take on a position of responsibility and then actively work against the official leadership from within! Do your work, follow the CBA and have your opinion, but do not work against what is after all YOUR leadership too. It breaks our solidarity and no group can afford it; especially not ours.
PLEASE start a new thread Cargowannabe....I am new to posting and would likely mess it up.
A divider is one who disagrees with the leadership and actively works against those duly elected officials empowered by the membership. Anyone is, obviously, welcome to disagree. When a member takes on work for the leadership and then actively, and inappropriately releases privileged information, that person is a divider due to the seeds of doubt that are sown into the membership from a person the membership considers to be in a position of trust. If a person does not agree with the leadership, fine, but do not take on a position of responsibility and then actively work against the official leadership from within! Do your work, follow the CBA and have your opinion, but do not work against what is after all YOUR leadership too. It breaks our solidarity and no group can afford it; especially not ours.
PLEASE start a new thread Cargowannabe....I am new to posting and would likely mess it up.
06-27-2014 | 03:44 AM
#8839
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
From: On My A$$
There is no opposition party that is expected to work in an adversarial role within our politics and against our leaders; we have management for that and it is enough.
We are the union and it is a team sport.[/QUOTE]
I agree with the team sport portion but totally disagree with the premiss that right now there is an opposition (key word) working against the union. As I see it there is none. I think the group just gets tired of the mushroom treatment, you know, I will tell you when you can see the sun but only after we $&!+ on ya for a while. I think that the group feels talked down to, misunderstood and truly not represented.
Cargowannabe
We are the union and it is a team sport.[/QUOTE]
I agree with the team sport portion but totally disagree with the premiss that right now there is an opposition (key word) working against the union. As I see it there is none. I think the group just gets tired of the mushroom treatment, you know, I will tell you when you can see the sun but only after we $&!+ on ya for a while. I think that the group feels talked down to, misunderstood and truly not represented.
Cargowannabe
06-27-2014 | 03:56 AM
#8840
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
From: On My A$$
Someone here mentioned the harsh word, in union speak, leak.
I have been pondering the definition and I need help with the please.
Would a leak be considered:
A) A committee chair sitting in a cockpit running issues by the pilot he/she is flying with and then that person spouting off in public that they know XYZ.....
B) An elected Union official bouncing an idea off of a friend, then that friend speaking it as gospel, then it goes public that they know XYZ....
C) A low level union worker, lets say not in the room during any discussions, that happens to fly with the elected union officials good friend that he bounced the idea off of and within a week or so had a committee chair ask him questions on the same subject, then made it public while all the while not being in any trusted position........
D) The pilot group as a whole for spouting off information that the they here from.......that knows somebody......... that......
I hope that you all get my point. I am not sure if the retirement and gateway things are true, I certainly hope they are not, but if they are and I found out through any of the above situations then I would go public and probably be MORE vocal than the individual that alerted the pilot group to the potential of NEGOTIATIONS without pilot group input or any type of communication.
Cargowannabe
I have been pondering the definition and I need help with the please.
Would a leak be considered:
A) A committee chair sitting in a cockpit running issues by the pilot he/she is flying with and then that person spouting off in public that they know XYZ.....
B) An elected Union official bouncing an idea off of a friend, then that friend speaking it as gospel, then it goes public that they know XYZ....
C) A low level union worker, lets say not in the room during any discussions, that happens to fly with the elected union officials good friend that he bounced the idea off of and within a week or so had a committee chair ask him questions on the same subject, then made it public while all the while not being in any trusted position........
D) The pilot group as a whole for spouting off information that the they here from.......that knows somebody......... that......
I hope that you all get my point. I am not sure if the retirement and gateway things are true, I certainly hope they are not, but if they are and I found out through any of the above situations then I would go public and probably be MORE vocal than the individual that alerted the pilot group to the potential of NEGOTIATIONS without pilot group input or any type of communication.
Cargowannabe
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