DrunkIrishman

D@mnit! The guy at the front door told me I did to get in the fair last year.

awax

I'd be first in line to complain if ALPA spent my dues money on pilot hiring events, it's simply not part of the union's charge.

Good points about diverse host groups and fund raising. I'd much rather support those efforts over some DB profiteer.

UAL T38 Phlyer

Way back in the dark ages, Kit Darby started FAPA: Future Airline Pilots of America (I think; been a long time).

While Darby has a storied reputation and ultimate history, what he started was a first: it was a company designed to help pilots get an airline job.

ALL pilots. He didn't have separate FAPA branches for different groups.

And that's what it should be, not a paraphrasing of Orwell's "Animal Farm," wherein "all pilots are created equal...but some are more equal than others."

And that is why an in-house fair is the best option.

awax

FAPA was a partnership between Darby and Smith which ultimately failed because the FAPA put profit above the original core objective of helping pilots get jobs. Hundreds of dollars per year for a book of HR addresses and a resume template was not sustainable. There was a time when FAPA was the only game in town, but as more pilots got onto the internet circa 2000, the hard-copy subscription business model was decimated.

Sites like APC offered all the information that FAPA did, but for free, and offered an online forum for pilots to connect across company lines. The print model simply couldn't compete, and raising subscription rates only accelerated FAPA's demise.

Job fairs exist only because pilots keep showing up. I see complaints, but if nobody attended, they'd go by way of FAPA's subscription model on short order. And then what?

There's obviously a need for job fairs, and given the need there will always be a profiteer to fill that gap (no NGPA pun intended) whether you call it fundraising, awareness raising, or whatever. For an applicant to have one stop shopping is convenient and that convention space costs money. I haven't seen anyone so benevolent that they'd foot the bill and not even cover costs so the current job fair market is what it is.

So the question remains, are job fair attendees being exploited by profiteers, or are they being provided a valuable opportunity at a small premium? Obviously you'll get a different answer from those who are hired vs. those who aren't.


As a footnote, FAPA is alive and well at https://www.fapa.aero under the guidance of Lou Smith. Darby is no longer affiliated.

Airhoss

Not in the slightest. That they are special interest groups is the issue. Recruiting should be done in house! How about just "airline recruiting fair" sponsored by the airlines who are hiring.

hummingbear

My understanding is that the organizations (OBAP, WIA, etc.) are merely hosting an event open to any interested persons. Much like a fundraising auction/carwash/bakesale, there is no requirement to belong to the hosting organization in order to participate in the event. As such, I don't take personal issue with the practice as a fundraising event on behalf of these particular organizations.

HOWEVER,

I take great issue with the fact that pilots are basically being asked to purchase points on their job applications. Of course, there is always an implicit value in networking, but for airlines to leave any ambiguity that they are attending these events for informational purposes ONLY is in my opinion, unethical. Further, airlines like DAL and UAL, who have literally thousands of applications for maybe 600 annual positions have no need to "get the word out", or generate enthusiasm for their company, so what are they doing there in the first place? The benefit of participation in these events to such top airlines is in all likelihood far less than the cost of travel, lodging, and compensation for the personnel they send out to attend. Frankly, I think it's perpetuated by the hiring department folks who like spending a weekend in a nice hotel in Orlando in February and kicking back a few beers with their buddies on the company's dime. That airlines allow the implication to persist (whether true or not) that attendees can effectively advance their resumes for a few hundred bucks a pop, is, as others have stated, a dark stain on our profession.

Of course, hopeful applicants are left with the distasteful choice of making a moral stand at the possible expense of others shortcutting in front of them, or dumping money into a dubious prospect in hopes of realizing their career goals.

Bennies

This sums it up nicely. I would also like to add that much of the frustration comes from the fact that the legacies only attended the special interest events. There are no normal job fairs available if one wants to meet with a recruiter.

If you want to meet a recruiter your hands are tied with doing business with a select few special interest groups. Indeed that makes the process a nice cash cow for these groups that otherwise would not have nearly the market demand for their product.

It's as if these groups use the out of control PC culture in this country to entice the airlines to attend so the airlines can thump their chest about how diverse they are. In return these groups make money hand over fist. The pilots caught up in the mess are the ones getting shafted. It's a scam.

labbats

I thought every hiring event at AA was mil-only.

WacoQCF

It was explained to me by a current HR dept interviewer - the airlines are required to hire under EEOC guidelines; in order to prove they are doing so they establish a yearly budget and attend these job fairs targeting certain groups.

The expenditures help show proof of EEOC compliance...however, this same person told me "don't waste your time at these events" (for that company) - they have never hired a person from one of those events, and if they did it would actually show discrimination.

This HR interviewer used to hawk the forums, and would see the person they invited state "I got the call one week after XXX convention, you have to go to the next one". When in fact they were selected only by the merit of their application, and the convention timeline was simply coincidental to the date they were reviewed/invited.

Events like Delta Expo and United for Veterans - they specifically said - we will be reviewing your application if you come. The others might just be a legal event to show the airline spent some $ to talk to a group of minorities etc.

Aquaticus

You get face time with the people that are actually doing the interviewing, are gaining little tips to improve your app, letters of rec, and their expectations at the interview, and most importantly you are or should be networking. They may not have hired someone AT the actually event but that person may not have been chosen a week later without the knowledge he gained AT that event. Each airline is unique and has a different culture and way in which they select candidates. At two legacy interviews I had already met a few of the interviewers at these things and I was able to remember a little about each of them and bring up the fact that I had met them before. It tells them you want to be there.

I have reviewed apps for many of my friends after interviewing at a few places and really grinding for a few years. Every single one of my friends that didn't go to the fairs had glaring errors in their app.