SaltyDog

Avg Joe,
Well, it is your stated opinion but then you haven't called to ask for more info, which as stated, would give you more information.
The challenge is that you expect a public statement on virtually on all IPA strategy. Does UPS management do that? No, they don't. Why would you expect the IPA to tell management what cards the IPA wants to use? Kind of self defeating IMO.

Avg Joe

Not sure if you cruise by the Bar & Grill Salty... you're pretty informed, so I'm guessing you do from time to time. I was just one of MANY that were frustrated by the lack of information shared before the management vote. Kind of a dysfunctional organization if 3000 guys all have to telephone an EB member on numerous subjects to gather information, wouldn't you agree?

(Don't get me wrong here... not a disgruntled line guy by any stretch and don't want to start a thread dumping on the union leadership.)

Oh.. forgot to add... perhaps if more information about the integration were shared prior to the vote, the outcome might have been overwhelmingly different? Kind of the risk you run when being less than forthcoming.

Joe

Buck92

Not sure how any of this prevents the upcoming furlough (perhaps future furloughs), but anyway: I don't see how putting the 200 managers into the list (particularly by DOH, which I'm sure is the only way they'll accept it -- getting stapled to the bottom of the list is laughable even by their standards) doesn't screw everyone not senior to the most senior manager. I mean, by definition, giving them a seniority number means they bid on schedules and can't be used by UPS 'at will' (which is the point of them)... I guess maybe they still drop some trips and displace off others for line checking, etc... but still screws any of us below them on the list as we've just lost 200 numbers for schedule bidding and upgrade. Also, if they get put on the list and get a number, how could you keep them a Capt on Capt pay if their seniority puts them solidly in FO territory? Anyone senior to them on the list getting FO pay would have a valid grievance I would think. And if you can't keep them on Capt pay, why would they agree to it? I may be missing something...

SaltyDog

Don't disagree that comms could be better, and 2906 calling is not a solution. However, sometimes it is, one calls in and can pass info out on the line.

Avg Joe

All great points Buck. Again, I read everything the union put out and didn't see the answers to your questions either. Hmm...


Joe

SaltyDog

Buck,
Fences take care of much of your questions. Regarding the supervisors seniority? Presently, every one of them is 'senior' to all line pilots. At some point, getting the jobs and functions they perform in the IPA is a win for all of us. Afterall, what stops UPS hring more?
Worst case, UPS furloughs and hires more supes instead of calling furloughs back? Think of that scenario. No limits on MEF, etc. and easy to manage into a MEF on a routine basis.

CactusCrew

Just to clarify, in my past experience ... these type of union supervisory pilots did NOT bid schedules. They were in the office M-F. If they wanted to get out of the office to fly, a line guy got displaced and stayed home with pay.

Line checks and training was accomplished by line check airmen. That "management" release to line is unique to UPS. Any of our IPA line instructors could do the same thing.

I don't know if it is your case, but if UPS is someone's only airline, it may be hard to understand how unique the management pilot system is here.

I think the ability to use them at will hurts us more than we may realize. IMHO of course.

nathanexplosion

If the managers want to come on board, they should go to the bottom of the list for bidding/vactation/furlough purposes. Fences would allow them to keep their current seats and positions. They don't want to accept that? Then they don't get the protection that a union affords. Period. Those are the terms they should accept, it's that simple. Some of them were part of the IPA before they switched over, others are scabs. They made a choice when they accepted a non-union position, as any of us who have had non-union jobs in the past know, they can't have their cake and eat it too.

That's just the opinion of an on-the-chopping-block-potentially-soon-to-furloughed FO.

FR8TFLYER

Has anyone heard anything at all re. the super secret meetings between the IPA and the company? I am just wondering what the number of voluntary leaves, early retirements (a joke I know), MIL Leave requests etc... have been submitted to the IPA?

Here's another good one. Heard a geezer that recently finished IOE on the 400 who will be turning 65 soon, will be going back to the DC-8, UFB!

SLPII

HAHA...THAT is great!!!!

He's holding out for age 70!

Man, I've always respected the elders...until I came to UPS!