42GO

Finally!!!! Some reasonable dialog.....
If you will remember, all I have done is ask questions....Never claimed to have all the answers. Don't know anyone who does.
I was at the meetings to start our Union, and belong today, so how some feel I don't like the Union is beyond me.

As I also said, I like the contract.....lawyers wrote it, so guess how it reads.

I also don't think I was the first person to suggest f------ing himself.

NOW, that being said, the Union is OUR organization elected by us just as our Congress is. It is a democratic organization made up of all types of people with all sorts of agendas.
It is important to always ask questions of elected leaders. Some on this board are so blinded by their zeal for ALPA they would never notice the bad or question any intent. THAT isn't good for a country, or a UNION!

EVERYONE in this organization should continue to question not only the company but the Union as well. Neither are without their warts or bad apples. ANY organization is like that..... No accusations, just every member should always be aware of that.

As to your psych discussions with various people, just remember................." if you turn to the ocean for knowledge or nutrition, don't be suprised when it tastes salty"

fecav8r

You know that part about Santa knowing who's been bad and good, well he knows you've been bad. I told him......

fecav8r

What do you mean here by a "sacrifice"

Bitme

Ok, history lesson. The wife of one of our pilots (who by the way was involved with forming FPA to get rid of ALPA one) went to management about an e-mail "the Sacrifice" had written. She claimed "the Sacrifice" was psychologically unstable or some such verbage and our Flight management ordered a psych eval (based on HER word). He declined. His FAA doctor said he was fine and he basically told mgt to pack sand. ALPA told him to submit to the psych and he basically told them to pack sand also. To him it was the principle of the thing. He was fired. Lawsuits ensued and he eventually lost. He sued the pilot and his wife, not sure the outcome on that. Never got his job back. He was one of the few charging up the hill for years to get this property organized and he became sacrifice. Granted, by some of his own doing, but a whole lot NOT of his doing.

42GO

"Granted, by some of his own doing"

Make that "A LOT"

Bitme

Your opinion, but if some spouse was reading this forum and went to mgt about you for a psych eval it would be just as unjust. However you would probably submit.

fecav8r

OK, I just wanted to make sure you were talking about Barney. Seems to me I remember this email threatended this guy and/or his family. Well, ou know what, he deserved to be directed for a Sec 8 check. He was a nut. And he picked a fight that he couldn't win. Plain and simple. At the time I was just a line slug and I remeber not having the least bit of concern for my job or my career here because of what took place. Tony, am I close....

TonyC

What I learned about the incident is easily a decade old, and none of it was first hand. I've spoken with the fired pilot, and with the pilot who was accused of supplying the pilot's wife with the posts, so I've heard different sides of the same story. I don't recall "threat" or "threatening" being used to describe the posts. I recall "over the top" and "out of control." That's what triggered my post to 42GO, his use of "almost out of control" referencing me. By the way, there was no e-mail involved -- it was all about posts on an internet forum, similar to this one. The principal difference in his case was the forum was "private," and supposedly secure. Only approved members were allowed to post or view posts. Someone with access to the forum gave copies of the posts to someone without access, and that's where the mess began.


(That's why I caution folks on PPW's FedEx Private Crewroom that there really is no such thing as a truly secure forum. We should always post like management is looking over our shoulders. We are responsible for everything we say or write.)


Right or wrong, Barney stood up for a principle. The principle was that a chief pilot does not have the authority to order a psychological evaluation of a pilot. If he does, every union organizer can be ordered to undergo psychological evaluations. Truth be known, most of us are a wee bit unbalanced, or we wouldn't be in this ridiculous business, right? I believe ALPA (or at least the Federal Express pilots that comprised our local ALPA at that time) supported his principle, but recommended he submit to the psych eval anyway. Retreat today to fight again tomorrow. Barney said thanks, but no thanks, this is where I'll fall on my sword.



Few may notice, but our current contract embodies Barney's principle, as it specifically prohibits flight management from ordering pilots to undergo psychological or psychiatric examination. (Section 15.G.1) They may refer him to the Company's aeromedical advisor "if the Company has a reasonable basis to question whether a pilot has developed or recovered from an impairment to his ability to perform his duties as a pilot." (15.D.1) Barney did that, and was found fit to fly.






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TonyC

For the benefit of those without the attention span to read the above post:


Flight Management directing psych evals is a thing of the past. Thanks to our contract, they can only direct MEDICAL evaluations.





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Albief15

So does this mean in the future should I upgrade to A300 F/O that I may be briefed on CRM by a sock puppet?

Also--what ever happened to Mr Chase your wife, buy drugs without a prescription guy? Is he back?