Phenom 100 300 takeoff landing dist
04-15-2018, 10:25 AM
#41
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Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Small and slow
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
OP didn't ask for it, but here are the AFM tables from a CJ2+.
The airplane I flew, an early 2009 model, had a no-pilot empty weight of 7766 and a two-pilot BOW (in our operation) of 8125.
VFR fuel reserve (at 15,000ft) is listed as 307lb for 30min and 468lb for 45min; FUEL LOW LEVEL lights illuminate at 220lb per tank and I've seen them flash on takeoff with 600lb+ per tank. Our operational reserve fuel was 600lb.
In my professional opinion, having a couple thousand hours in 500/525-series Citations, the mission as described does NOT fit this airframe. You might get completely unfactored AFM distances and weights to work on paper, but I would never operate into 2500'.
The airplane I flew, an early 2009 model, had a no-pilot empty weight of 7766 and a two-pilot BOW (in our operation) of 8125.
VFR fuel reserve (at 15,000ft) is listed as 307lb for 30min and 468lb for 45min; FUEL LOW LEVEL lights illuminate at 220lb per tank and I've seen them flash on takeoff with 600lb+ per tank. Our operational reserve fuel was 600lb.
In my professional opinion, having a couple thousand hours in 500/525-series Citations, the mission as described does NOT fit this airframe. You might get completely unfactored AFM distances and weights to work on paper, but I would never operate into 2500'.
04-15-2018, 11:04 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,177
Well, your first post didn’t mention the CJ at all, now it’s just the numbers you were looking for. Got it.
As we see so often, a poster comes here asking for operational information from experts (read: some one ignorant of the answe to THEIR question) and, shortly, the tell the experts THEY asked, that they’re idiots.
In my 45 years as a professional pilot, when I went to an “expert”; I took the answer they gave and stopped arguing. It has served me well.
Kimo,
I’ll ask again, how WIDE is this runway?
GF
As we see so often, a poster comes here asking for operational information from experts (read: some one ignorant of the answe to THEIR question) and, shortly, the tell the experts THEY asked, that they’re idiots.
In my 45 years as a professional pilot, when I went to an “expert”; I took the answer they gave and stopped arguing. It has served me well.
Kimo,
I’ll ask again, how WIDE is this runway?
GF
04-15-2018, 11:30 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: Left seat on a kite
Posts: 1,884
GF,
I bet he is based here......
AirNav: PHPA - Port Allen Airport
2450ft X 60ft asphalt runway that is limited to 12,500 lb aircraft.
I bet he is based here......
AirNav: PHPA - Port Allen Airport
2450ft X 60ft asphalt runway that is limited to 12,500 lb aircraft.
04-15-2018, 12:27 PM
#44
New Hire
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Position: Phenom 100 single PIC
Posts: 3
Phenom 100
OK Kimo,
2864’ is the dry runway takeoff distance required with your parameters. This is accelerate to V1 then come to a stop. Remember this is a jet.
You are playing with fire if you conduct operations into and out of a 2500 foot runway with 800 pounds of fuel. The FAA will hang you.
If the runway is 60’ wide, good luck turning around on that with a Phenom 100.
So you gonna call me some names too?
2864’ is the dry runway takeoff distance required with your parameters. This is accelerate to V1 then come to a stop. Remember this is a jet.
You are playing with fire if you conduct operations into and out of a 2500 foot runway with 800 pounds of fuel. The FAA will hang you.
If the runway is 60’ wide, good luck turning around on that with a Phenom 100.
So you gonna call me some names too?
04-15-2018, 01:23 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,177
RI830,
Well, then it’s not really 2,500’, but the TODA/TORA is 2,361’ on 09; which being in trades is the prevailing runway in use. Not sure of the gear width on a Phenom, but the certification criteria for pilot deviation at Vmcg is 30’; in the other words, pretty much guaranteed sideline excursion OEI. At those weights, it would probably be a V1min schedule, that is, Vmcg limited. I suspect a fuel emergency is more likely than runway excursion due to engine failure near V1. Unless taxing on the grass occurs first.
GF
Well, then it’s not really 2,500’, but the TODA/TORA is 2,361’ on 09; which being in trades is the prevailing runway in use. Not sure of the gear width on a Phenom, but the certification criteria for pilot deviation at Vmcg is 30’; in the other words, pretty much guaranteed sideline excursion OEI. At those weights, it would probably be a V1min schedule, that is, Vmcg limited. I suspect a fuel emergency is more likely than runway excursion due to engine failure near V1. Unless taxing on the grass occurs first.
GF
04-15-2018, 02:30 PM
#46
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Small and slow
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
Well, your first post didn’t mention the CJ at all, now it’s just the numbers you were looking for. Got it.
As we see so often, a poster comes here asking for operational information from experts (read: some one ignorant of the answe to THEIR question) and, shortly, the tell the experts THEY asked, that they’re idiots.
In my 45 years as a professional pilot, when I went to an “expert”; I took the answer they gave and stopped arguing. It has served me well.
Kimo,
I’ll ask again, how WIDE is this runway?
GF
As we see so often, a poster comes here asking for operational information from experts (read: some one ignorant of the answe to THEIR question) and, shortly, the tell the experts THEY asked, that they’re idiots.
In my 45 years as a professional pilot, when I went to an “expert”; I took the answer they gave and stopped arguing. It has served me well.
Kimo,
I’ll ask again, how WIDE is this runway?
GF
If we don't have the length why are you worried about the width?
04-15-2018, 02:33 PM
#47
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Small and slow
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by Phenom100driver
OK Kimo,
2864’ is the dry runway takeoff distance required with your parameters. This is accelerate to V1 then come to a stop. Remember this is a jet.
You are playing with fire if you conduct operations into and out of a 2500 foot runway with 800 pounds of fuel. The FAA will hang you.
If the runway is 60’ wide, good luck turning around on that with a Phenom 100.
So you gonna call me some names too?
2864’ is the dry runway takeoff distance required with your parameters. This is accelerate to V1 then come to a stop. Remember this is a jet.
You are playing with fire if you conduct operations into and out of a 2500 foot runway with 800 pounds of fuel. The FAA will hang you.
If the runway is 60’ wide, good luck turning around on that with a Phenom 100.
So you gonna call me some names too?
Thanks for your constructive comments regarding takeoff lengths. Was hard to come by but I appreciate it.
04-15-2018, 02:34 PM
#48
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Small and slow
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by RI830
GF,
I bet he is based here......
AirNav: PHPA - Port Allen Airport
2450ft X 60ft asphalt runway that is limited to 12,500 lb aircraft.
I bet he is based here......
AirNav: PHPA - Port Allen Airport
2450ft X 60ft asphalt runway that is limited to 12,500 lb aircraft.
Last edited by Kimo; 04-15-2018 at 03:01 PM.
04-15-2018, 03:02 PM
#50
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Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Small and slow
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
If you don’t have the length, the width doesn’t matter. But, width, as explained can be limiting and short runways are often narrow.
GF
GF
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