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Old 05-26-2020, 02:58 PM   #11  
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Yes and no.
The OP is looking for a 91/135 job when they are furloughed. Odds are they will not end up in a gig like yours. They will probably be at an entry level corporate gig. That area is still the wild west. When my 135 company would send me to recurrent, I was nearly always paired up with another pilot from a different company. Besides the fact the my company didn't see how you can't work as a crew using two different sets of SOPs, I still remember a debate with a very experienced 91 guy who didn't want to fly the engine out procedure during a V1 cut because it conflicted with our SID. He also shut down our good engine because he failed to have me verify the fuel control. According to him, at his company the pilot performing the checklist is the one who is supposed to verify.

Most people who end up at quality 91 and 135 jobs don't transfer over to 121. It's usually the pilots from entry level 91 135 companies that move over to 121. Some of them end up struggling in training trying to break bad habits or learn new concepts. Anyone who is part of the Private Jet Pilot FB group will know what I'm talking about. About once a week someone has a question that they should have known the answer to before they ever got their ATP.
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Old 05-26-2020, 04:32 PM   #12  
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The OP is looking for a 91/135 job when they are furloughed. Odds are they will not end up in a gig like yours. They will probably be at an entry level corporate gig. That area is still the wild west. When my 135 company would send me to recurrent, I was nearly always paired up with another pilot from a different company. Besides the fact the my company didn't see how you can't work as a crew using two different sets of SOPs, I still remember a debate with a very experienced 91 guy who didn't want to fly the engine out procedure during a V1 cut because it conflicted with our SID. He also shut down our good engine because he failed to have me verify the fuel control. According to him, at his company the pilot performing the checklist is the one who is supposed to verify.

Most people who end up at quality 91 and 135 jobs don't transfer over to 121. It's usually the pilots from entry level 91 135 companies that move over to 121. Some of them end up struggling in training trying to break bad habits or learn new concepts. Anyone who is part of the Private Jet Pilot FB group will know what I'm talking about. About once a week someone has a question that they should have known the answer to before they ever got their ATP.
Itís just how it is in 135, thatís why I said itís harder to transition to 135 from airline than the other way once you passed training. They expect you to work with them and not rock the boat. Iíve seen my share of stuff too but at the end of the day all they care about was if the flight was completed to the customers satisfaction. And if youíre having trouble with another guy theyíll just get rid of both of you.

This is also why they donít prefer the airline guys because they have gotten bad habits too, maybe not flying but in the other ways they really care about.
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Old 05-26-2020, 07:08 PM   #13  
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The OP is looking for a 91/135 job when they are furloughed. Odds are they will not end up in a gig like yours. They will probably be at an entry level corporate gig. That area is still the wild west. When my 135 company would send me to recurrent, I was nearly always paired up with another pilot from a different company. Besides the fact the my company didn't see how you can't work as a crew using two different sets of SOPs, I still remember a debate with a very experienced 91 guy who didn't want to fly the engine out procedure during a V1 cut because it conflicted with our SID. He also shut down our good engine because he failed to have me verify the fuel control. According to him, at his company the pilot performing the checklist is the one who is supposed to verify.

Most people who end up at quality 91 and 135 jobs don't transfer over to 121. It's usually the pilots from entry level 91 135 companies that move over to 121. Some of them end up struggling in training trying to break bad habits or learn new concepts. Anyone who is part of the Private Jet Pilot FB group will know what I'm talking about. About once a week someone has a question that they should have known the answer to before they ever got their ATP.
Entry level 135 is where they may end up....but that isnít where they think they are owed.
This is why PPW has blown up over this subject. A furloughed airline pilot isnít owed a corporate gig as his or her fallback.

They are swimming in a very different pond and not one they really want to swim in.

Regarding the training....121 is beyond anal with the dumbest of things. And 91/135 training can be a box checking event We as check airmen must continue to push 91/135 operators to display knowledge/skills/understanding more often.

There are many 91, 135 and 121 operators who fly by the seat of their pants and couldnít tell you a memory item or limitation to save themselves. We must all hold ourselves to a higher standard.
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Old 05-26-2020, 09:58 PM   #14  
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We have had a bunch of career 121 guys applying for a 135 single pilot night freight where we also load and unload the aircraft. Yeahhh thats probably not a good fit..
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Old 05-27-2020, 02:48 AM   #15  
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We have had a bunch of career 121 guys applying for a 135 single pilot night freight where we also load and unload the aircraft. Yeahhh thats probably not a good fit..
Yeah donít expect them to roll out the red carpet because youíre 121
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Old 05-27-2020, 07:11 AM   #16  
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We have had a bunch of career 121 guys applying for a 135 single pilot night freight where we also load and unload the aircraft. Yeahhh thats probably not a good fit..
Well, it depends. A lot of the 121 guys on the street right now are FOs from Trans States and Compass. They are not too far removed from flying small aircraft and dealing with some of those issues, whether it be CFI or part 91/135. Also you have a lot of 2nd career and ex non-flying mil guys who still knows what a hard day's work entails. My point being not every 121 guy is the prototypical double breasted uniform hat wearing mocha drinking 121 pilot. (although I do love mochas).
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Old 05-27-2020, 08:19 AM   #17  
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Well, it depends. A lot of the 121 guys on the street right now are FOs from Trans States and Compass. They are not too far removed from flying small aircraft and dealing with some of those issues, whether it be CFI or part 91/135. Also you have a lot of 2nd career and ex non-flying mil guys who still knows what a hard day's work entails. My point being not every 121 guy is the prototypical double breasted uniform hat wearing mocha drinking 121 pilot. (although I do love mochas).

It doesnít seem like it was the loading or the backside of the clock that was deterring most of them. We offered a couple of airline guys the job and they ended up turning it down (right before covid hit) after the discovery that most of our flights are single pilot.


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Old 05-28-2020, 08:30 AM   #18  
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It doesnít seem like it was the loading or the backside of the clock that was deterring most of them. We offered a couple of airline guys the job and they ended up turning it down (right before covid hit) after the discovery that most of our flights are single pilot.


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I did single-pilot 135 cargo in the check hauling days before going 121. I had no issues with the single-pilot operation, nor with loading/unloading. I did have an issue with the push to break FARs. "Joe made it in. Why didn't you?" "Ummm... it was below 1/2 mile, the tower was reporting 1/4 mile, so I didn't even initiate the approach." "Yeah, but Joe made it in. So why didn't you make it in?"
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Old 05-28-2020, 10:55 AM   #19  
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Luckily I have never been questioned on a decision to divert, delayed departure, or an inability to get into a field for whatever reason. We just let dispatch know and they adapt to what we need as pilots with no pressure from management or anyone. Iíve heard of and see many of the 134.5 operators out there doing their thing. Seems like ... a fun time.


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Old 06-14-2020, 06:51 AM   #20  
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Had an interesting question:

If a 121 pilot is furloughed, or about to be furloughed, what is most corporate companies attitude towards this? I heard that many will want the individual to sign docs to give up their seniority number because they know once recalled the pilot will bounce. Is this true?

Also, what is the corporate hiring environment like right now? Thanks.

-PPP
The difference is dramatic , different cultures and expectations , you have to be willing to work harder and longer in Corporate flying jobs although there does exist some exceptions , biggest deal is your attitude ....... And corporate flying duty days can be very long and fatiguing to the point of questionable safety
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