Being contactable - Part 91
08-12-2014, 03:27 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: Left seat on a kite
Posts: 1,884
Originally Posted by NoSidNoStar
What? 4 hard days off per month, and most of the times you fly trips in less call time that stated in your contract/ops manual?
Why even bother having such documents then?
And in your opinion a pilot that stick to his guns and want his schedule respected should righteously get fired? Really?
These statements are unacceptable, even for time builders, left alone for professional pilots.
This kind of attitude is what makes the corporate sector of the aviation industry the destination for pilots that never made it to a real job.
There are few good corporate jobs, but is up to all of us to raise our own bar.
Please, anybody entering the corporate world, don't give up on yourself.
Now of course, we will read about a bunch of guys; how good is their life at home, even with no hard days off at all, playing golf, staying with the kids, and when they do fly is just like a vacation trip, and the boss is like family, and the last minute call (almost) never arrives etc etc.
Bla bla bla.
Well, guess what? They are just barely content, and they won't admit that could be much better with real hard days off.
Deep inside they know it, they just won't admit it.
Unfortunately all it takes is few bad apples to ruin it for everybody else.
Pilots that think other pilots should be fired for abiding to their contracted scheduled days off. Pilots that never say no. These are the bad apples.
Thanks to them, having 10 days off a month in corporate world is a rare luxury.
Thanks to them, your cell phone is expected to be on 24/7.
Thanks to them, you will be "asked" to take your vacation during the annual.
Thanks to them, when you were flight available, but did not fly, you were "off".
Go ahead, lynch me, for what I care.
Why even bother having such documents then?
And in your opinion a pilot that stick to his guns and want his schedule respected should righteously get fired? Really?
These statements are unacceptable, even for time builders, left alone for professional pilots.
This kind of attitude is what makes the corporate sector of the aviation industry the destination for pilots that never made it to a real job.
There are few good corporate jobs, but is up to all of us to raise our own bar.
Please, anybody entering the corporate world, don't give up on yourself.
Now of course, we will read about a bunch of guys; how good is their life at home, even with no hard days off at all, playing golf, staying with the kids, and when they do fly is just like a vacation trip, and the boss is like family, and the last minute call (almost) never arrives etc etc.
Bla bla bla.
Well, guess what? They are just barely content, and they won't admit that could be much better with real hard days off.
Deep inside they know it, they just won't admit it.
Unfortunately all it takes is few bad apples to ruin it for everybody else.
Pilots that think other pilots should be fired for abiding to their contracted scheduled days off. Pilots that never say no. These are the bad apples.
Thanks to them, having 10 days off a month in corporate world is a rare luxury.
Thanks to them, your cell phone is expected to be on 24/7.
Thanks to them, you will be "asked" to take your vacation during the annual.
Thanks to them, when you were flight available, but did not fly, you were "off".
Go ahead, lynch me, for what I care.
You seem a bit angry and jaded. Did you or do you have a corporate job that isn't working for you? There are plenty of guys who have top tier jobs that don't meet your judgmental ideas.
Just because a contract says 2hrs, why must one take all 2hrs? Would you sit in your car at home waiting for time to leave when you were ready? If so, that shows a **** poor attitude.
Corporate isn't for everyone. Some guys just want to show up, print paperwork, sit n fly to the standard contract hotel, rinse and repeat.
That's fine, it's their choice. Don't lump all corporate jobs in the same basket in your mind.
My job abides by the min 13/qtr hard days off yet we exceed 20/qtr routinely. Usual month has 10+ non duty/non off days too. Min 2 hr callout, we beat that when able but they know we have the full 2 when needed. We stay in far better hotels than airlines. Meals exceed airline quality and are paid for by the boss. Very few early departures. Young, happy and qualified Cabin Attendant to take care of our paxs.
Spent 6 yrs at the airlines and can't see myself going back that way.
Pretty good job IMHO, but maybe I just can't admit it!
08-12-2014, 03:50 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 124
Originally Posted by NoSidNoStar
What? 4 hard days off per month, and most of the times you fly trips in less call time that stated in your contract/ops manual?
Why even bother having such documents then?
And in your opinion a pilot that stick to his guns and want his schedule respected should righteously get fired? Really?
These statements are unacceptable, even for time builders, left alone for professional pilots.
This kind of attitude is what makes the corporate sector of the aviation industry the destination for pilots that never made it to a real job.
There are few good corporate jobs, but is up to all of us to raise our own bar.
Please, anybody entering the corporate world, don't give up on yourself.
Now of course, we will read about a bunch of guys; how good is their life at home, even with no hard days off at all, playing golf, staying with the kids, and when they do fly is just like a vacation trip, and the boss is like family, and the last minute call (almost) never arrives etc etc.
Bla bla bla.
Well, guess what? They are just barely content, and they won't admit that could be much better with real hard days off.
Deep inside they know it, they just won't admit it.
Unfortunately all it takes is few bad apples to ruin it for everybody else.
Pilots that think other pilots should be fired for abiding to their contracted scheduled days off. Pilots that never say no. These are the bad apples.
Thanks to them, having 10 days off a month in corporate world is a rare luxury.
Thanks to them, your cell phone is expected to be on 24/7.
Thanks to them, you will be "asked" to take your vacation during the annual.
Thanks to them, when you were flight available, but did not fly, you were "off".
Go ahead, lynch me, for what I care.
Why even bother having such documents then?
And in your opinion a pilot that stick to his guns and want his schedule respected should righteously get fired? Really?
These statements are unacceptable, even for time builders, left alone for professional pilots.
This kind of attitude is what makes the corporate sector of the aviation industry the destination for pilots that never made it to a real job.
There are few good corporate jobs, but is up to all of us to raise our own bar.
Please, anybody entering the corporate world, don't give up on yourself.
Now of course, we will read about a bunch of guys; how good is their life at home, even with no hard days off at all, playing golf, staying with the kids, and when they do fly is just like a vacation trip, and the boss is like family, and the last minute call (almost) never arrives etc etc.
Bla bla bla.
Well, guess what? They are just barely content, and they won't admit that could be much better with real hard days off.
Deep inside they know it, they just won't admit it.
Unfortunately all it takes is few bad apples to ruin it for everybody else.
Pilots that think other pilots should be fired for abiding to their contracted scheduled days off. Pilots that never say no. These are the bad apples.
Thanks to them, having 10 days off a month in corporate world is a rare luxury.
Thanks to them, your cell phone is expected to be on 24/7.
Thanks to them, you will be "asked" to take your vacation during the annual.
Thanks to them, when you were flight available, but did not fly, you were "off".
Go ahead, lynch me, for what I care.
Last edited by GrummanCT; 08-12-2014 at 04:26 AM.
08-12-2014, 02:40 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 473
As aspected, and anticipated in the fashion and for the arguments, the lynching started. Just to show how frustrated some pilots can be. Wonder whose fault?
RI, I didn't put all corporate jobs in the same level.
Now, you are talking about "minimum" days off 13/qt. That is 135, not corporate. Two totally differ animals. If you are a 135 career pilot, I am sorry for you. I had a 135 jet job, and when the time came to refresh and renew, I just walked away went back working as a CFI. That is what I think of 135 jobs.
If you do like your 135 job, I guess I can only say good for you.
And if by airlines you mean a regional or charter, you are intentionally disguising the issue. I cannot believe somebody would leave a major to go fly 135, or even corporate for that matter.
P.S. waiting the two hours at home or in the parking lot, yes, I actually have done literally that, not in a corporate job, but in 135. And it was to prove a point and make sure that unreasonable calls were not to be expected.
Grum, my point is not bragging about who has the better or worst job.
(You have the latter).
My main problem is with your position of approving of other pilots being fired for trying to enforce a contract agreement with their owners/managers, for whatever that can be. No excuses for that. You are what keeps this sector a steppingstone for most. Besides few very lucky corporate departments, FBO are infested with pilots of your caliber. Pilots that show no compassion to other pilots, and are always ready to suck it up to the boss. I have a huge problem with people like that. I bet the younger pilots around you are filling every possible application they find.
Additionally, you stated you have 2 days off every two weeks. That does not account to 141 days off a year, but to 52 days off. Stop lying to yourself.
If you are saying that a day in which you are not flying, it is a day off, you are proving the points in my previous post. According to your logic, I had 290 days off last year. Well, not at all. And I am ready to bet that in many of those "days off" of yours, you were at the airport "helping" (not working) just because you had nothing better to do. Sad if you had, sad if you had not.
So, again using your standards, last year I had 290 days off, six figure income, 5 star hotels, Amex with my name on it, at least $600 tip each time I saw the boss, benefits paid 100% (what benefits? 100% of what? A cell phone, medical, 401k matching, points at hotels, amex, ect. etc...)
GARBAGE!!!
We should have had better benefits, REAL days off, longer vacation, 4 pilots instead of 3, 401k contributions instead of matching etc etc. But guess what? Because of people like you, always ready to "take one for the team" this sector will be always inferior in both remuneration and QOL as compare to the major airlines. Because of people like you, I have decided I don't belong in general aviation, but in the airlines. I am ready to do the jump, starting with a huge pay cut, so that I don't have to put up with your kind while waiting at the FBO. You won't miss pilots like me, I won't miss people like you. Fair well.
I will not answer you anymore, you already have proven my points.
Autopirate, remember, no matter what they tell you, a day in which you are available is NOT a day off.
RI, I didn't put all corporate jobs in the same level.
Now, you are talking about "minimum" days off 13/qt. That is 135, not corporate. Two totally differ animals. If you are a 135 career pilot, I am sorry for you. I had a 135 jet job, and when the time came to refresh and renew, I just walked away went back working as a CFI. That is what I think of 135 jobs.
If you do like your 135 job, I guess I can only say good for you.
And if by airlines you mean a regional or charter, you are intentionally disguising the issue. I cannot believe somebody would leave a major to go fly 135, or even corporate for that matter.
P.S. waiting the two hours at home or in the parking lot, yes, I actually have done literally that, not in a corporate job, but in 135. And it was to prove a point and make sure that unreasonable calls were not to be expected.
Grum, my point is not bragging about who has the better or worst job.
(You have the latter).
My main problem is with your position of approving of other pilots being fired for trying to enforce a contract agreement with their owners/managers, for whatever that can be. No excuses for that. You are what keeps this sector a steppingstone for most. Besides few very lucky corporate departments, FBO are infested with pilots of your caliber. Pilots that show no compassion to other pilots, and are always ready to suck it up to the boss. I have a huge problem with people like that. I bet the younger pilots around you are filling every possible application they find.
Additionally, you stated you have 2 days off every two weeks. That does not account to 141 days off a year, but to 52 days off. Stop lying to yourself.
If you are saying that a day in which you are not flying, it is a day off, you are proving the points in my previous post. According to your logic, I had 290 days off last year. Well, not at all. And I am ready to bet that in many of those "days off" of yours, you were at the airport "helping" (not working) just because you had nothing better to do. Sad if you had, sad if you had not.
So, again using your standards, last year I had 290 days off, six figure income, 5 star hotels, Amex with my name on it, at least $600 tip each time I saw the boss, benefits paid 100% (what benefits? 100% of what? A cell phone, medical, 401k matching, points at hotels, amex, ect. etc...)
GARBAGE!!!
We should have had better benefits, REAL days off, longer vacation, 4 pilots instead of 3, 401k contributions instead of matching etc etc. But guess what? Because of people like you, always ready to "take one for the team" this sector will be always inferior in both remuneration and QOL as compare to the major airlines. Because of people like you, I have decided I don't belong in general aviation, but in the airlines. I am ready to do the jump, starting with a huge pay cut, so that I don't have to put up with your kind while waiting at the FBO. You won't miss pilots like me, I won't miss people like you. Fair well.
I will not answer you anymore, you already have proven my points.
Autopirate, remember, no matter what they tell you, a day in which you are available is NOT a day off.
08-12-2014, 03:39 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: Left seat on a kite
Posts: 1,884
Originally Posted by NoSidNoStar
As aspected, and anticipated in the fashion and for the arguments, the lynching started. Just to show how frustrated some pilots can be. Wonder whose fault?
RI, I didn't put all corporate jobs in the same level.
Now, you are talking about "minimum" days off 13/qt. That is 135, not corporate. Two totally differ animals. If you are a 135 career pilot, I am sorry for you. I had a 135 jet job, and when the time came to refresh and renew, I just walked away went back working as a CFI. That is what I think of 135 jobs.
If you do like your 135 job, I guess I can only say good for you.
And if by airlines you mean a regional or charter, you are intentionally disguising the issue. I cannot believe somebody would leave a major to go fly 135, or even corporate for that matter.
P.S. waiting the two hours at home or in the parking lot, yes, I actually have done literally that, not in a corporate job, but in 135. And it was to prove a point and make sure that unreasonable calls were not to be expected.
Grum, my point is not bragging about who has the better or worst job.
(You have the latter).
My main problem is with your position of approving of other pilots being fired for trying to enforce a contract agreement with their owners/managers, for whatever that can be. No excuses for that. You are what keeps this sector a steppingstone for most. Besides few very lucky corporate departments, FBO are infested with pilots of your caliber. Pilots that show no compassion to other pilots, and are always ready to suck it up to the boss. I have a huge problem with people like that. I bet the younger pilots around you are filling every possible application they find.
Additionally, you stated you have 2 days off every two weeks. That does not account to 141 days off a year, but to 52 days off. Stop lying to yourself.
If you are saying that a day in which you are not flying, it is a day off, you are proving the points in my previous post. According to your logic, I had 290 days off last year. Well, not at all. And I am ready to bet that in many of those "days off" of yours, you were at the airport "helping" (not working) just because you had nothing better to do. Sad if you had, sad if you had not.
So, again using your standards, last year I had 290 days off, six figure income, 5 star hotels, Amex with my name on it, at least $600 tip each time I saw the boss, benefits paid 100% (what benefits? 100% of what? A cell phone, medical, 401k matching, points at hotels, amex, ect. etc...)
GARBAGE!!!
We should have had better benefits, REAL days off, longer vacation, 4 pilots instead of 3, 401k contributions instead of matching etc etc. But guess what? Because of people like you, always ready to "take one for the team" this sector will be always inferior in both remuneration and QOL as compare to the major airlines. Because of people like you, I have decided I don't belong in general aviation, but in the airlines. I am ready to do the jump, starting with a huge pay cut, so that I don't have to put up with your kind while waiting at the FBO. You won't miss pilots like me, I won't miss people like you. Fair well.
I will not answer you anymore, you already have proven my points.
Autopirate, remember, no matter what they tell you, a day in which you are available is NOT a day off.
RI, I didn't put all corporate jobs in the same level.
Now, you are talking about "minimum" days off 13/qt. That is 135, not corporate. Two totally differ animals. If you are a 135 career pilot, I am sorry for you. I had a 135 jet job, and when the time came to refresh and renew, I just walked away went back working as a CFI. That is what I think of 135 jobs.
If you do like your 135 job, I guess I can only say good for you.
And if by airlines you mean a regional or charter, you are intentionally disguising the issue. I cannot believe somebody would leave a major to go fly 135, or even corporate for that matter.
P.S. waiting the two hours at home or in the parking lot, yes, I actually have done literally that, not in a corporate job, but in 135. And it was to prove a point and make sure that unreasonable calls were not to be expected.
Grum, my point is not bragging about who has the better or worst job.
(You have the latter).
My main problem is with your position of approving of other pilots being fired for trying to enforce a contract agreement with their owners/managers, for whatever that can be. No excuses for that. You are what keeps this sector a steppingstone for most. Besides few very lucky corporate departments, FBO are infested with pilots of your caliber. Pilots that show no compassion to other pilots, and are always ready to suck it up to the boss. I have a huge problem with people like that. I bet the younger pilots around you are filling every possible application they find.
Additionally, you stated you have 2 days off every two weeks. That does not account to 141 days off a year, but to 52 days off. Stop lying to yourself.
If you are saying that a day in which you are not flying, it is a day off, you are proving the points in my previous post. According to your logic, I had 290 days off last year. Well, not at all. And I am ready to bet that in many of those "days off" of yours, you were at the airport "helping" (not working) just because you had nothing better to do. Sad if you had, sad if you had not.
So, again using your standards, last year I had 290 days off, six figure income, 5 star hotels, Amex with my name on it, at least $600 tip each time I saw the boss, benefits paid 100% (what benefits? 100% of what? A cell phone, medical, 401k matching, points at hotels, amex, ect. etc...)
GARBAGE!!!
We should have had better benefits, REAL days off, longer vacation, 4 pilots instead of 3, 401k contributions instead of matching etc etc. But guess what? Because of people like you, always ready to "take one for the team" this sector will be always inferior in both remuneration and QOL as compare to the major airlines. Because of people like you, I have decided I don't belong in general aviation, but in the airlines. I am ready to do the jump, starting with a huge pay cut, so that I don't have to put up with your kind while waiting at the FBO. You won't miss pilots like me, I won't miss people like you. Fair well.
I will not answer you anymore, you already have proven my points.
Autopirate, remember, no matter what they tell you, a day in which you are available is NOT a day off.
I know the 13/qtr is a 135 policy. We keep our corporate aircraft on a 135 cert for the bosses tax bennies. We do an occasional charter and are paid more for it.
Enjoy your glorious airline job! We'll enjoy our craphole no good for nothing jobs.
08-12-2014, 04:29 PM
#35
Flying Farmer
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Turbo-props' and John Deere's
Posts: 3,160
FlyJSH left an airline to return to 135 work, just posted it this past week i believe. Fwiw.
Every job, every owner, every op, and even us pilots are different. While they could be similiar, they aren't. That's life, and what might be lemons for one is lemonade for another. Good luck to everyone.
Every job, every owner, every op, and even us pilots are different. While they could be similiar, they aren't. That's life, and what might be lemons for one is lemonade for another. Good luck to everyone.
08-12-2014, 05:11 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 473
That was probably a regional, if not, a charter company.
Show me somebody that left a major to return to a 135 job.
RI, the 13/qt is not a policy. It is a reg.
Your 91/135 for taxes benefits answer was so predictable.
You have 13/qt off. Even if you were pure 91 it would still be bad.
It would be bad no matter what it was.
I am bitter and have beef with who brags about having other pilots fired for trying to enforce a contract with minimum advantages. That is not good even for time builders.
If you suggest to a young pilot that he/she should do that, or lose his/her job, I have beef with you too. And please, everybody just stop to call "days off" the days you were available but did not fly. It is a lie.
As EWF said above, to each is own.
Show me somebody that left a major to return to a 135 job.
RI, the 13/qt is not a policy. It is a reg.
Your 91/135 for taxes benefits answer was so predictable.
You have 13/qt off. Even if you were pure 91 it would still be bad.
It would be bad no matter what it was.
I am bitter and have beef with who brags about having other pilots fired for trying to enforce a contract with minimum advantages. That is not good even for time builders.
If you suggest to a young pilot that he/she should do that, or lose his/her job, I have beef with you too. And please, everybody just stop to call "days off" the days you were available but did not fly. It is a lie.
As EWF said above, to each is own.
Last edited by NoSidNoStar; 08-12-2014 at 05:12 PM. Reason: Spelling error
08-12-2014, 05:27 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 473
P.S. why even using the adjectives "glorious" or "craphole"? Those words did not come out of my mouth.
There are excellent corporate jobs out there, statistically not as a many as good major airline jobs, but they do exist. But thanks to pilots willing to fly on days off, or without days off, and blaming the others that won't, fostering the on-call-24/7 culture, those jobs are very few and far in between.
It is up to all of us to accept or not such conditions.
135 jobs are, to me, the equivalent of the regionals. Time building jobs.
All the answers in favor of a job Without real days off are dull predicatable.
There are excellent corporate jobs out there, statistically not as a many as good major airline jobs, but they do exist. But thanks to pilots willing to fly on days off, or without days off, and blaming the others that won't, fostering the on-call-24/7 culture, those jobs are very few and far in between.
It is up to all of us to accept or not such conditions.
135 jobs are, to me, the equivalent of the regionals. Time building jobs.
All the answers in favor of a job Without real days off are dull predicatable.
Last edited by NoSidNoStar; 08-12-2014 at 05:29 PM. Reason: Spelling error
08-12-2014, 05:50 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: Left seat on a kite
Posts: 1,884
And if by airlines you mean a regional or charter, you are intentionally disguising the issue. I cannot believe somebody would leave a major to go fly 135, or even corporate for that matter.
Grum, my point is not bragging about who has the better or worst job. (You have the latter).
P.S. waiting the two hours at home or in the parking lot, yes, I actually have done literally that, not in a corporate job, but in 135. And it was to prove a point and make sure that unreasonable calls were not to be expected.
Now, you are talking about "minimum" days off 13/qt. That is 135, not corporate. Two totally differ animals. If you are a 135 career pilot, I am sorry for you. I had a 135 jet job, and when the time came to refresh and renew, I just walked away went back working as a CFI. That is what I think of 135 jobs.
RI, the 13/qt is not a policy. It is a reg.
I am bitter and have beef with who brags about having other pilots fired for trying to enforce a contract with minimum advantages.
You have absolutley no idea to what anyones job is except the one you had.
08-12-2014, 06:07 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 473
You seam very defensive. I only attacked who wants other pilots fired for trying to respect their days off.
Do you?
I have an issue with misleading youngsters into thinking that an available day without flights is a day off.
Do you agree with that?
You might not a time builder now, but you were when you left the regional, so don't try to sell the idea that you had it made in the airlines and left for 135. That was a time building job. Sorry. I had one of those too back in the days.
I don't care what planes you fly, your destinations, and you salary.
I only know you have 13 days off/qt.
And that is all I need to know about your job.
You want me to say that you and Grum have the best jobs, same as you tell yourself in the mirrors?
I am proud of having the company waiting the maximum available time for me to show up, I would do it again, and again, and again.
As far as bidding to avoid me as you said you would, funny, it is the exact opposite. Young pilots always want to be under the wing of somebody that would stand his ground rather then with older guys ready to throw them under the bus in the name of team play.
Do you?
I have an issue with misleading youngsters into thinking that an available day without flights is a day off.
Do you agree with that?
You might not a time builder now, but you were when you left the regional, so don't try to sell the idea that you had it made in the airlines and left for 135. That was a time building job. Sorry. I had one of those too back in the days.
I don't care what planes you fly, your destinations, and you salary.
I only know you have 13 days off/qt.
And that is all I need to know about your job.
You want me to say that you and Grum have the best jobs, same as you tell yourself in the mirrors?
I am proud of having the company waiting the maximum available time for me to show up, I would do it again, and again, and again.
As far as bidding to avoid me as you said you would, funny, it is the exact opposite. Young pilots always want to be under the wing of somebody that would stand his ground rather then with older guys ready to throw them under the bus in the name of team play.
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