rickair7777

I didn't spin anything either way... MY only concern with "long covid" is the FAA, they seem a bit spring-loaded there. AZ (and maybe J&J) appear to have statistically relevant clotting events, absolutely worth looking into and at some point suspending use until resolved.

For the mRNA vaccines however I've seen no statistical info on clotting events. Naturally out of 100's of millions of people vaccinated the MSM has managed to go out and find a couple people who had health issues the same week they got vaccinated, and they'll ride that pony hard until it keels over. With the Donald gone and covid containment in sight, they're hurting for business.

If the clotting issues involve the same mechanism by which covid-induced clotting occurs then it could be immune-related. Even then, you have to weigh that vs. the risk associated with covid. What we've seen so far indicates the covid risk is greater than any vaccine-associated risks for all vaccines for all or almost all demographics (kids seem almost immune to covid, they should definitely tread lightly there). The mRNA vaccines have been deployed the longest and to vast numbers of people, I'm certain that if there was anything more than background noise it would have come to light by now.

It's also probable that even if there is a risk of rare, serious adverse events the net benefit of vaccination is still going to outweigh the risks. Of course it's still your personal choice either way. I've also seen some discussion about treatment for the clotting disorder... sounds like if they know what it is it's pretty treatable so that will help now that the word is out.

Mesabah

This doctor died of the same issue from the Pfizer vaccine. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/h...ine-death.html

germanaviator

That's really not what the article said. It specifically says it is unknown whether his condion was caused by the vaccine. Dying after vaccination is not the same as dying as a result of vaccination. There may be a link or there may not be. In a group of millions of people, recently vaccinated or not, one would expect to see even very rare medical conditions occasionally. Only if these occur more frequently than what would be statistically normal in the general population should we start to get worried. That one isolated case of the doctor dying two weeks after he got the BioNtech/Pfizer means very little.

AntiPeter

As usual the media is not reporting specifics and is heavily engaged in their fear porn even with the vaccine.

I was under the impression that the few people with reported blood clots with the J & J brand of vaccine are all women, under 48 and all on oral birth control medication.

Blood clots are a known side effect with female birth control.

This doesn't address the possibility of long term immune dysfunction from vaccines (if that even exists), but these vaccines, even the J&J seem very, very safe.

GeeWizDriver

Ironic that correlation not being causation can excuse possible side effect death or injury but the same concept is dismissed by some when discussing the enormous number of people who merely died WITH Covid as opposed to those who died OF Covid...

germanaviator

Maybe by some people but not by most people I speak to. Several studies have been done by various university hospitals in Germany and I'm sure elsewhere and after autopsy it was found that around 80% of those who died with covid died from covid. I can dig up links and post them if you want. In any event, ine person who's death may be linked to the Pfizer vaccine is hardly the same as hundreds of thousands dying within weeks if getting covid.

Added some links to study results. In German but google will translate Websites for you

https://www.aerzteblatt.de/nachrichten/120950/Grossteil-der-Coronatoten-an-statt-mit-COVID-19-gestorben

https://www.mdr.de/brisant/corona-todesursache-100.html

https://www.aerzteblatt.de/nachrichten/115799/COVID-19-bei-Mehrzahl-der-Betroffenen-auch-die-Todesursache

germanaviator

It's true that women on birth control are more likely to have this clotting happen to them (still very rare though) but the number of these cases observed following vaccination with AZ exceed the numbers that would be statistically normal in that demographic. At least here in Germany and other countries in Europe. We haven't started using the J&J in Europe yet. Start of that program has just been put on hold here

Mesabah

Yes, but there have been 6 cases of VITT with the J&J, 46 with AZ, 55 with Pfizer, and 2 with Moderna reported thus far. It's clearly a political attack to pause the vaccine, over a statistically insignificant side effect, that is seen in all vaccine groups. The CVST is a red herring because that's where the clots showed up, the underlying condition is the immune system attacking blood platelets. The government doesn't care about stopping Covid, only what they can get from using it.

rickair7777

Yes. This was one of two events publicized fairly early on but with literally hundreds of millions of mRNA doses delivered it is quite literally background noise with no statistical relevance.

And I'm not discounting the real possibility that the vaccine caused that, but the incidence is so low as to be irrelevant. It basically falls into the same very real but very minuscule risk category associated with using ANY pharmaceutical (or unregulated supplements)... there will be rare adverse events. That doesn't mean you should avoid all pharma even where there's a clear benefit. The mRNA have a pretty clearly favorable risk/benefit balance at this point.

I personally DO avoid pharma to the extent practical, I don't go to the doc asking for pills, I actually ask about non-pharma solutions. But if pharma's the right answer I'll go ahead and do it. It's not a religious thing with me. I avoid most supplements like the plague, those aren't regulated or certified. Even natural plant products might not contain what they claim to.

rickair7777

For J&J it's six known cases out of 7M doses, with one fatality. Even if they think there's a link, they won't de-certify the vaccine over those numbers, worst case probably restrict it to certain demographics.

The mRNA numbers have to be considered in light of 100's of millions of doses delivered...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN2C11LC