It sucks to be a hostage...
10-09-2020, 12:19 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,538
Originally Posted by atooraya
Ok so are you posting this to prove that the system works and frauds are arrested and convicted? Or do you think an ID would stop people from voting twice or changing ballots signatures?
I am asking the questions to get you to consider the reasons why people don't have ID's. Getting an ID is not a barrier to anyone who truly wants to be a member of our society and vote. It may be an inconvenience, it may carry a small cost, but it isn't a barrier unless that person isn't really all that concerned about voting in the first place.
It is not the Jim crow south. There are no poll taxes, literacy tests, or requirements to own property to vote but it is not unreasonable to ask a prospective voter to prove their identity. In my state there is no ID requirement. If you know my name and my precinct you can literally go and vote for me. In other words you could go and commit voter fraud and no one would know because they can't even ask you for an ID.
10-09-2020, 12:47 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 492
Originally Posted by Seneca Pilot
I posted it to show that voter fraud does happen and would be a much bigger problem if we didn't take measures to prevent it.
I am asking the questions to get you to consider the reasons why people don't have ID's. Getting an ID is not a barrier to anyone who truly wants to be a member of our society and vote. It may be an inconvenience, it may carry a small cost, but it isn't a barrier unless that person isn't really all that concerned about voting in the first place.
It is not the Jim crow south. There are no poll taxes, literacy tests, or requirements to own property to vote but it is not unreasonable to ask a prospective voter to prove their identity. In my state there is no ID requirement. If you know my name and my precinct you can literally go and vote for me. In other words you could go and commit voter fraud and no one would know because they can't even ask you for an ID.
I am asking the questions to get you to consider the reasons why people don't have ID's. Getting an ID is not a barrier to anyone who truly wants to be a member of our society and vote. It may be an inconvenience, it may carry a small cost, but it isn't a barrier unless that person isn't really all that concerned about voting in the first place.
It is not the Jim crow south. There are no poll taxes, literacy tests, or requirements to own property to vote but it is not unreasonable to ask a prospective voter to prove their identity. In my state there is no ID requirement. If you know my name and my precinct you can literally go and vote for me. In other words you could go and commit voter fraud and no one would know because they can't even ask you for an ID.
If I go in and vote as you, without an ID, I have to sign a sworn affidavit, or fill out a provisional ballot. Some states will ask me for a utility bill, or for the voter information guide I received in the mail. People have been caught doing your hypothetical situation according to the link you provided, which again shows that the system works: https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/...aud_type=24493
I'm not going to go back and fourth because you will never change your mind and I have yet to ever see someone on social media say, "Wow, you're so right!" I never disagreed that voter fraud exists, but for a country that reveres itself on democracy and duly elected officials, we really make poor people work harder to make their ballots count. Side note, I registered to vote in my state online, got my ballot in the mail, and dropped it off at the dropbox. Didn't show my ID to a single person, but my signature will be verified that is on the ballot, and I can see the progress of my ballot online. If it gets bounced, I have to request a new ballot, or vote in person. There is a system in place, and your link shows that people who try to cheat get caught and pay fines and sentences.
10-09-2020, 01:07 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,538
Originally Posted by atooraya
I never said voter fraud doesn't happen. I asked you how many cases there were in 2016, because of the 138 million people that voted, there were four confirmed cases of voter fraud.
If I go in and vote as you, without an ID, I have to sign a sworn affidavit, or fill out a provisional ballot. Some states will ask me for a utility bill, or for the voter information guide I received in the mail. People have been caught doing your hypothetical situation according to the link you provided, which again shows that the system works: https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/...aud_type=24493
I'm not going to go back and fourth because you will never change your mind and I have yet to ever see someone on social media say, "Wow, you're so right!" I never disagreed that voter fraud exists, but for a country that reveres itself on democracy and duly elected officials, we really make poor people work harder to make their ballots count. Side note, I registered to vote in my state online, got my ballot in the mail, and dropped it off at the dropbox. Didn't show my ID to a single person, but my signature will be verified that is on the ballot, and I can see the progress of my ballot online. If it gets bounced, I have to request a new ballot, or vote in person. There is a system in place, and your link shows that people who try to cheat get caught and pay fines and sentences.
If I go in and vote as you, without an ID, I have to sign a sworn affidavit, or fill out a provisional ballot. Some states will ask me for a utility bill, or for the voter information guide I received in the mail. People have been caught doing your hypothetical situation according to the link you provided, which again shows that the system works: https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/...aud_type=24493
I'm not going to go back and fourth because you will never change your mind and I have yet to ever see someone on social media say, "Wow, you're so right!" I never disagreed that voter fraud exists, but for a country that reveres itself on democracy and duly elected officials, we really make poor people work harder to make their ballots count. Side note, I registered to vote in my state online, got my ballot in the mail, and dropped it off at the dropbox. Didn't show my ID to a single person, but my signature will be verified that is on the ballot, and I can see the progress of my ballot online. If it gets bounced, I have to request a new ballot, or vote in person. There is a system in place, and your link shows that people who try to cheat get caught and pay fines and sentences.
There were 62 cases in 2016 but, eh no biggie. Most of the convictions involved fraudulent absentee ballots and duplicate voting. These are the ones who got caught. We have no statistics on the numbers of people who cast illegitimate votes and get away with it.
10-09-2020, 01:09 PM
#34
777 - ret
Joined APC: Apr 2020
Position: Waco CG-4 center seat
Posts: 863
Originally Posted by Seneca Pilot
In my state there is no ID requirement. If you know my name and my precinct you can literally go and vote for me. In other words you could go and commit voter fraud and no one would know because they can't even ask you for an ID.
10-09-2020, 01:16 PM
#35
Perennial Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,504
Originally Posted by Huell
I find that hard to believe. What state do you live in?
https://www.ncsl.org/research/electi....aspx#Election
10-09-2020, 01:22 PM
#36
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by atooraya
Maybe because states are demanding ID while offices are closed...
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...ter-id-measure
Also, the word "hostage" is pretty dramatic. You're all free to leave, and the airlines are free to find money elsewhere.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...ter-id-measure
Also, the word "hostage" is pretty dramatic. You're all free to leave, and the airlines are free to find money elsewhere.
10-09-2020, 01:42 PM
#37
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,222
It's funny how the Left wants to minimize the importance of voter fraud, and at the same time open avenues for more voter fraud by pushing mail-in voting...
When myself, as a Republican, just wants to go to a polling station where I know my vote made it into the system.
When myself, as a Republican, just wants to go to a polling station where I know my vote made it into the system.
10-09-2020, 02:24 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 492
Originally Posted by kingairfun
It's funny how the Left wants to minimize the importance of voter fraud, and at the same time open avenues for more voter fraud by pushing mail-in voting...
When myself, as a Republican, just wants to go to a polling station where I know my vote made it into the system.
When myself, as a Republican, just wants to go to a polling station where I know my vote made it into the system.
10-09-2020, 02:34 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,538
Originally Posted by atooraya
Its definitely funny how the right wants to stop mail in voting, which has been part of this democracy since the Civil War.
Mail in voting is fine as long as its a working tested system, there is a requirement to prove your identity to request a ballot, there are no unsolicited ballots, and the ballots cannot be received after election day. Some states have used mail in voting successfully for years.
I would be fine with electronic voting if blockchain was used to authenticate the voters. No need to waste time going to a poll with today's technology.
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