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Old 09-10-2021, 07:19 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Thedude86 View Post
I asked somebody if they would be ok if United mandated Ivermectin since some on here claim a private company can mandate its employees to do whatever they want. It’s obvious most only believe that as long as it’s something they agree with. The precedent has been set. You agree with it now, you might not agree with it when it comes to something else in the future.
Respect to this post. At last he has formed a conscious argument in only one paragraph and only has a few grammatical errors. Guy is really turning the corner. If he keeps it up we'll be heading to the feed store in a couple weeks.
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Old 09-10-2021, 07:26 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by beetlehog View Post
Golfer is just one of the many on this website who can't see what is going on and how bad it is for all of us because as you just wrote, "he agrees with it". This government is completely out of control and I ask all of the people here who voted for Biden, are you still proud of that vote??? Honest question. The speech from yesterday afternoon should scare the hell out of all Americans and we should be marching to D.C. immediately. This President's poll numbers are now in the 30s and has no political capital but he still figures he can do this. Is it just a distraction from Afghanistan or is this gonna really happen? It seems shocking to me that his poll numbers are this bad considering he got more votes than Obama. It is almost like he has no base and got no where near 81 million votes. Just sayin.
sorry, the guy in his 30s is the Donald. Biden is about 46-47%
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Old 09-11-2021, 07:57 AM
  #73  
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bFguCdJfLA
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Old 09-11-2021, 09:00 AM
  #74  
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My experience with US Civil Service employees lead me to doubt that. While in the military I once witnessed the firing of a GS-8. The woman was capable of doing her job, she simply didn’t want to do THAT job. She’d been a GS-9 in an organization on the other side of town which Congress in its infinite wisdom had decided to collocate with a similar organization 1300 mike’s away. But because she hadn’t wanted to relocate, she slid into the GS-9 slot when it came open. Except it was obvious from the start that she didn’t want to do it and she refused to do it, stating she was not yet appropriately trained for the job. The specific issue, I believe, was that she had been trained in WordPerfect version x.yz and her computer had WordPerfect x.yz+3 on it, a difference that it would have been really difficult for a non expert to even discern. My subordinate (she was ostensibly his secretary) was a persistent cuss, sending her off to WordPerfect class training, spending the requisite full year on a Performance Improvement Plan, and when after a year she still was refusing to work, starting the process of firing her. The package of documentation he sent me exceeded the weight of the woman.

Not having been born yesterday, I contacted the local EO office and had them investigate the subordinate organization, contacted the union shop steward and ask to have him to have anyone who had an opinion on this issue or wanted to support the woman to come and see me, and got an opinion from the base JAG on the legal sufficiency. Even the woman’s friends said she could do the work, just didn’t want to. In less than a month I approved the paperwork and it got sent forward.

It was about 15 months later that I testified in federal court as to the review I had done. After a three day trial the woman was officially fired by Civil Service. She had not, as far as anyone could tell, done any productive work for three years. The reviews (discriminated against due to race, gender, age) went on for another three years

From a recent Washington Post:

The first coronavirus plan for most federal employees, announced at the end of July, required employees to “attest” to their status and threatened discipline only if someone was discovered to have lied about their vaccination status. But little was done to push that plan along before Thursday’s was announced.

“The attestation [phase] failed,” said Jason Briefel, partner at Shaw Bransford & Roth, who represents several federal employee associations, including the Senior Executives Association, which represents about 1,700 career senior leaders in government. “There were templates, there was guidance, but it appears there’s a major disconnect between the center of government and [agencies’] ability to navigate this change on the ground.”

“We did not feel the ‘throw it over the fence to the agencies’ strategy was the right one,” Briefel said.

The Treasury Department, for example, planned to start testing only in mid-October, Hooper said. The White House budget office had promised agencies that it would provide access to a contractor, but not until late fall.

Most officials agree that a mandate will be more simple to implement than the earlier policy. But if the traditional system for punishing employees is used for those refusing vaccines, as Psaki suggested, another raft of complications would come into play.

The administration, in guidance to agencies sent in August after the first vaccine plan was announced, recommended that employees who refuse to get shots be placed on administrative leave, a form of paid time off used widely for short-term absences. It is also used when a manager proposed removing an employee, with final action within 30 days.

But in recent years, the policy was widely considered to have been abused by managers who wanted to sideline troublesome workers while misconduct or poor performance reports were adjudicated. Managers were often slow to respond to employees’ responses to proposed removals and to issue final removal notices, so the process dragged out.

Congress, intending to curb abuses, passed a law in late 2016 that severely restricted the use of paid leave. But the Office of Personnel Management did not issue regulations to implement it, so managers still have wide latitude to use paid leave for long periods.

The OPM rule book lists dozens of reasons for allowing paid leave, such as donating an organ, house-hunting before a job transfer and attending the funeral of a relative in the military. Some employees remain on paid leave while they challenge demotions and other punishments.

“What’s the incentive for someone to get vaccinated, who doesn’t want to do it, when they could get a paid vacation?” asked Todd Wells, executive director of the Federal Managers Association, which represents 200,000 managers and senior executives across the government, many in national security roles. He cited naval shipyards that rely on thousands of employees to maintain vessels round-the-clock.” We’re trying to literally keep the ships running and you’re saying, go home for a few months and take a vacation.”

Cathie McQuisten, deputy general counsel for the American Federation of Government Employees, the largest federal employee union with 700,000 members, said that employees were entitled to due process. She said she expects that any move to discipline or fire employees who do not comply with the mandate would not start until “day 76” of the grace period to get shots.

“My understanding is that before that, you’re not in violation,” she said
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Old 09-11-2021, 09:31 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by symbian simian View Post
If it was the approved for human version, and prescribed by a doctor, and has no real side effects, and was recommended by the CDC, I would have no problem with it, just like uhh, getting the vaccine?
1. Does a recommendation from the NIH count? Or are you the one that gets to decide which government agencies we listen to and which ones we don’t to fit your argument?

2a. It actually is approved by the FDA for human use. It just doesn’t have a high enough profit margin to be specifically approved for Covid use.
2b. It actually has been prescribed by thousands of doctors (in this country)
2c. It actually has no real side effects unless you overdose for being an idiot. I can overdose on Tylenol if I don’t take it as directed. If side effects are your issue… it’s listed side effects are no worse than Tylenol or Advil per the FDA. If side effects are your issue… the vaccine’s listed side effects are much worse, and while rare, does include death. Per the FDA. If you’re worried about side effects from Ivermectin but not the vaccine… you’re a hypocrite.

2d. Ivermectin is recommended for refugees to the U.S. BY THE CDC to be used for 2 days before entering the country. The CDC’s website does say it’s recommended for other illnesses, but last I checked we weren’t in a global horse illness pandemic.

3. Why’s it matter if it’s recommended by the CDC or not? Your argument is that a private company can do whatever it wants. What if it’s something not medically related? You clearly only believe that because it’s something you agree with…. this time.
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Old 09-11-2021, 09:36 AM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by worstpilotever View Post
sorry, the guy in his 30s is the Donald. Biden is about 46-47%
If you believe that I really feel sorry for you. Why don't you go read the latest crap the Economist put out. Even the party of Davos knows this guy is finished. You are just too stupid to see it.
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Old 09-11-2021, 01:31 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Thedude86 View Post
1. Does a recommendation from the NIH count? Or are you the one that gets to decide which government agencies we listen to and which ones we don’t to fit your argument?

2a. It actually is approved by the FDA for human use. It just doesn’t have a high enough profit margin to be specifically approved for Covid use.
2b. It actually has been prescribed by thousands of doctors (in this country)
2c. It actually has no real side effects unless you overdose for being an idiot. I can overdose on Tylenol if I don’t take it as directed. If side effects are your issue… it’s listed side effects are no worse than Tylenol or Advil per the FDA. If side effects are your issue… the vaccine’s listed side effects are much worse, and while rare, does include death. Per the FDA. If you’re worried about side effects from Ivermectin but not the vaccine… you’re a hypocrite.

2d. Ivermectin is recommended for refugees to the U.S. BY THE CDC to be used for 2 days before entering the country. The CDC’s website does say it’s recommended for other illnesses, but last I checked we weren’t in a global horse illness pandemic.

3. Why’s it matter if it’s recommended by the CDC or not? Your argument is that a private company can do whatever it wants. What if it’s something not medically related? You clearly only believe that because it’s something you agree with…. this time.
Show me were the NIH recommended Ivermectin , studies from third parties in pubmed don't count. The CDC does not recommend Ivermectin for covid. It matters to me if the CDC recommends something, because I know I can't do my own research and I reluctantly somewhat trust the CDC. I know Ivermectin is a wonderful drug for humans against parasitic worms hence the Nobel prize, and has shown promise against some viral diseases, but I am not convinced it's a wonder drug against covid, and has not been prescribed/recommended for use against covid, at least not in any significant number.
Having said that, it's cheap, and has low side effects, so I would have no problem if it there was a big scale clinical trial here in the US. I would not hesitate to join. I do not believe there is a big pharma conspiracy to keep us hooked on expensive drugs, and that the governments are complicit in this. So https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consum...event-covid-19 to me means we are probably stuck with the vaccine and masks for now.

You keep reciting the numbers in Israel and Iceland as a warning vaccines don't work, but although their numbers are higher than they were earlier, they are still far lower, especially death rates, when compared to the states, and especially with individual states with lower vaccination rates. Pretty much all children in the States are required to get their shots before going to school (and the places where they don't suffer from it, see measles), military, same, and yes, I have no problem with an employer mandating that as a condition of employment. Might come back and bite me in the a$$, if they can enforce that, what else can they mandate, yes, you are right to be worried about slope.
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Old 09-11-2021, 01:41 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by Thedude86 View Post
I asked somebody if they would be ok if United mandated Ivermectin since some on here claim a private company can mandate its employees to do whatever they want. It’s obvious most only believe that as long as it’s something they agree with. The precedent has been set. You agree with it now, you might not agree with it when it comes to something else in the future.
The difference is:

FDA approved for humans above age 12
Proven scientifically to help against the novel Coronavirus (and most variants - so far)


The precedent already exists. Employers won't force a drug/vaccine that is under EUA. But once it's approved for normal use, roll up your sleeves.
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Old 09-11-2021, 05:06 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by AvNav23 View Post
No whats disappointing is a group of “religious” people not doing what they can to help those that are medically unable or those who are too young to get a vaccine stay safer.
False premise. Choosing to get the vaccine or not has nothing to do with other people.
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Old 09-11-2021, 07:51 PM
  #80  
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You don’t know how vaccines work, do you?
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