C Series Info
01-27-2018, 05:24 PM
#2071
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
I can see the 319s going, but why make a 150 seat cs500 when you have 4,000 orders for a320neos that have commonality with the 320s before them and 321s above them? I remember hearing cs500 was dead with airbus deal?
Different subject, it's interesting to read that Boeing could get 737-7s to delta before 2022. I'm sure 320neos about the same.
Seems to me we screwed ourselves believing we could keep the 88s and 90s for another decade waiting on the gtf engines to mature (and we bragged about that) and that turned out not to be the case by a country mile. I think we hit the panic button.
And looked for options and all there was was embraers and cseries... And we went with the Embraers.
Then shifted to cseries. Seems as if there is to be a injury case to be made it'd be made by embraer at the wto... or Boeing if they acquire embraer.
And before anymore claims embraer doesn't have the range of the cseries go back and look at our deal, we got bombardier to lower the price if we promised to not use more than a third kf the cseries' range. Crazy, but hey, delta and bd were desperate for each other.
Different subject, it's interesting to read that Boeing could get 737-7s to delta before 2022. I'm sure 320neos about the same.
Seems to me we screwed ourselves believing we could keep the 88s and 90s for another decade waiting on the gtf engines to mature (and we bragged about that) and that turned out not to be the case by a country mile. I think we hit the panic button.
And looked for options and all there was was embraers and cseries... And we went with the Embraers.
Then shifted to cseries. Seems as if there is to be a injury case to be made it'd be made by embraer at the wto... or Boeing if they acquire embraer.
And before anymore claims embraer doesn't have the range of the cseries go back and look at our deal, we got bombardier to lower the price if we promised to not use more than a third kf the cseries' range. Crazy, but hey, delta and bd were desperate for each other.
01-27-2018, 05:29 PM
#2072
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 7ERA
Posts: 1,216
Originally Posted by Rayeli
Latest info from network posted on deltanet shows first passenger flight in July 2018. We’ll see if that holds or gets pushed back.
01-27-2018, 06:07 PM
#2073
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by Mesabah
I don't understand Delta's decision to shorten the range of the Cseries at all.
The long thin routes are probably best done by crj900s (in the real world)
01-27-2018, 07:25 PM
#2074
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by Ship741
The 737-7 and A319 are too heavy and their fuselages are too wide. They're dying off because of that. Imho someone has done a calculation and the 5 abreast seating appears perfect for the 110-150 seat market.
But neither has the cseries.
Or the 190s.
Still best seating is e jet 2x2 imho. But do that in a 150 seater and you'll have the tail out into the ramp without a 2L door.
But with the cseries, we account for more than 50% of their 100 orders and republic's deferred cs300 orders accounts for 1/5th the cs300 orders.
That's 330 ish real cs orders in 10 years-
Boeing and Airbus combine with 10,000+ in past 8 years for max and neo. Combine the 3 and bd got 3% of sales. That's a pretty loud market reaction.
I work for Delta, I know orphan jets, that's where the cs is headed unless Airbus does some number on it. Maybe they'll gut the cockpit and make it one type with the 6000 320 family jets they sold.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 01-27-2018 at 07:47 PM.
01-27-2018, 07:29 PM
#2075
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,870
Originally Posted by Ship741
The 737-7 and A319 are too heavy and their fuselages are too wide. They're dying off because of that. Imho someone has done a calculation and the 5 abreast seating appears perfect for the 110-150 seat market. The 6 abreast 737 series and A320 series are more efficient for the 160-190 seat market. And the A321 has the advantage in that market because of the extra 8 inches in width, the taller gear, and the cockpit that was only designed 30 years ago. Hehehe.
Delta favors purchase price and optimum size airplane for each market segment over fleet standardization. Example: Reading between the lines on some of the comments RA made over the years, the 777 is too heavy and too optimized for the ME3 in his opinion....this explains some of the scorn for Boeing. In Boeing's defense, we were all going bankrupt in the lost decade and Boeing had to respond to the customers in front of them, the ME3. All just mho.
Delta favors purchase price and optimum size airplane for each market segment over fleet standardization. Example: Reading between the lines on some of the comments RA made over the years, the 777 is too heavy and too optimized for the ME3 in his opinion....this explains some of the scorn for Boeing. In Boeing's defense, we were all going bankrupt in the lost decade and Boeing had to respond to the customers in front of them, the ME3. All just mho.
That has been the case ever since the merger gave us a multi-aircraft fleet. In the years prior to the merger management was all about "Fleet Standardization." It was actually pretty comical how quickly we changed from Fleet Standardization being of the utmost importance, to touting the benefits of "Fleet Versatility" and putting the right air-frame on the right route. Must have been the same week that merger related management stock options went through.
I would not be surprised if when it suits management needs we will be all about Fleet Standardization again at some time. Of course you have to give credit where credit is due - DAL appears to be firing on all cylinders quite nicely, so kudos to our team.
Scoop
01-27-2018, 07:51 PM
#2076
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by Scoop
That has been the case ever since the merger gave us a multi-aircraft fleet. In the years prior to the merger management was all about "Fleet Standardization." It was actually pretty comical how quickly we changed from Fleet Standardization being of the utmost importance, to touting the benefits of "Fleet Versatility" and putting the right air-frame on the right route. Must have been the same week that merger related management stock options went through.
I would not be surprised if when it suits management needs we will be all about Fleet Standardization again at some time. Of course you have to give credit where credit is due - DAL appears to be firing on all cylinders quite nicely, so kudos to our team.
Scoop
I would not be surprised if when it suits management needs we will be all about Fleet Standardization again at some time. Of course you have to give credit where credit is due - DAL appears to be firing on all cylinders quite nicely, so kudos to our team.
Scoop
Surface over iPad? Brilliant. IPad now over surface? Brilliant.
Buy used over unproven? Brilliant. Replace used that can't be serviced for new unproven? Brilliant.
01-27-2018, 08:06 PM
#2077
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Originally Posted by Ship741
The real question is the 757/767. Nothing really replaces this market segment in seating size/range capability. The company recently decided to put 5 more 757s into the ETOPS program, originally 15 were asked for. The 739 ETOP version can't fly west coast to Hawaii without bumping customers on many days. Nothing is due to deliver in this segment until Boeing can flesh out the new middle of market airplane, which they say will EIS in 2024-25.
Denny
01-27-2018, 08:32 PM
#2078
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 282
If I'm Boeing at next aircraft purchase request by Delta, I just ignore it.
Originally Posted by Denny Crane
Wellllllll, are we getting any A321neo's in an ETOPS configuration? After seeing that WOW flight from Iceland to LAX, I wouldn't think they'd have a problem making Hawaii from LAX.........or a significant amount of the western US.
Denny
Denny
01-28-2018, 06:10 AM
#2079
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 7ERA
Posts: 1,216
Originally Posted by n9810f
If I'm Boeing at next aircraft purchase request by Delta, I just ignore it.
But, I think Airbus has the narrow bodies tied up at Delta.......as they should. The 739 sucks and the 737max is just more lipstick on the pig.
With the 321ceo/neo and the C series, Delta is on their way to having an awesome domestic fleet.
01-28-2018, 06:13 AM
#2080
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Has anyone seen what a break even is for c series program?
I did read, and it seemed like an educated reply, Airbus needs them to sell at 30m to be profitable and delta wanted them at 20.
I did read, and it seemed like an educated reply, Airbus needs them to sell at 30m to be profitable and delta wanted them at 20.
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