Thanks for the research. I generally agree that the demographics of the 1721 doesn't matter. The bigger point I was making is our MEC is considering non-voluntary adjustments to our PWA for the benefit of the 1721. If we as a group are being asked to be altruistic than a more complete picture of the group should be provided. Everyone has a different idea on where that line is drawn. For me personally I'd be interested in the number of folks that have Guard/Reserve gigs or drawing Military pensions. Cheers.

I just think it's funny so many people are against targeted ALV decreases when the VEOP, UNAs, and furloughs are basically targeted ALV decreases.

And then scream that the company won't honor the agreement and just do what they want and furlough anyway. What's keeping them from just unilaterally not honoring the pwa as it is and decreasing ALV on their own? They haven't done that but could.

I'm in no way pro company and probably less so than almost everyone I have flown with but I hardly think they are being that malicious through this. Maybe playing too much hardball, yes.

Flight ops has simply been given a cash burn decrease they need to hit for at least summer 2022. SILs are good and all but not a long term solution and highly variable month to month. There would have to be a ton of 1-2 year SILs taken to save all the furloughs, when I did the math it was around 4000.

I think the lack of info is kinda driving the crazy bus right now. Lets figure out what the proposals are and see if they make sense and go from there.

Agree. The reality is SILs alone are not a realistic way to address this. We could do voluntary partial lines though with 55 credit using just 2 4-day trips or equivalent. The problem it sounds is that it’s apparently too complicated for the company to have some lines at 55 and others at normal value. Personally, I think it’s a poor excuse when every furlough can potentially be saved. Shows how much they really care. Not at all.

It will be interesting to see if they can figure out partial lines. I think partial reserve would be much easier to implement, and if it is limited to 24-hour call out as originally proposed, I bet we’d get a fair number of takers (commuters). I hope the USERRA relief is included for those potentially wanting to take long term mil leaves or work as a technician. I’m looking forward to seeing what they’ve come up with.

if there are no changes to the PWA, it will not go to MEMRAT for a vote. You should know this

Did you follow this forum during the best of times?

I have to ask what is the downside to the company for providing this relief? I would have thought they would be glad to do it and reduce headcount

no worries, I think there might be a perception that many in the furlough range are either in their late 20s or retired mil with tricare and a pension, that’s just simply not true.

regarding how many are still in the guard/reserve I can offer anecdotal evidence from my class, which is in the 1721. We had a larger class (40+), I think about 60% my class was civilian background, and only 7 or 8 of the mil background guys were still in guard/reserves. Not sure if my class was an exception or if this has been the norm. I’d be curious as well to see how many are retired military

We have had pilots in the past complain that mil pilots exceeded the 5 year limit, locked down a great mil retirement and then bumped them back when they returned. This in part led the company to track the 5 year limit. In addition the company has financial obligations to mil leave pilots that are substantial.