Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Major > Delta
35 Large RJs coming back? >

35 Large RJs coming back?

Search

Notices

35 Large RJs coming back?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 05-21-2021 | 03:02 PM
  #541  
NuGuy's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,099
Likes: 86
Default

Originally Posted by Trip7
I know of many times when the wind has been blowing down the runway all day on the ATIS then when you get to the runway the wind sock is showing a tailwind or Tower spits out a tailwind wind read in a quarter of a second then clears you for takeoff

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
Thats where that mental math comes in handy....
Reply
Old 05-21-2021 | 03:48 PM
  #542  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by NuGuy
Thats where that mental math comes in handy....
Deltas 55 wind check!
Reply
Old 05-21-2021 | 04:49 PM
  #543  
Line Holder
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 907
Likes: 55
From: B737 FO
Default

Originally Posted by CBreezy
​​​​I believe this is discussed in a bulletin this month. Not sure where. There is an auto-logic for including tailwinds based on the current winds. They published a table.
Well it's in the May 737 Fleet Newsletter for one, not sure where else to find it if you're not lucky enough to be on the 737.

Specifically they say "the amount of tw is now capped to preserve RATOW margin above RMWT/TOWT. The max tw displayed will be set to TW00 when the rwy hdwind component is 5 kts or greater."

The article continues with more information, but that seems the most relevant to our discussion. At first I was happy about going to the PLW because it seemed simpler, but flying today and checking our WDRs and seeing they all had TW00 on every line I'm concerned.

So I guess the idea is to have a larger weight buffer at the expense of having ANY tw protection? Aren't we just trading one problem for another? And a problem that requires you to:
1. Hear ATC say the winds when all you're listening for is "cleared for T/O" and
2. Do quick mental math and realize you now have as little as 1 kt of TW making the T/O numbers invalid

And as others have already mentioned the ATIS could be saying 5 kt hdwind all day long but all the matters is tower gave you a wind read-out with a tailwind.
Reply
Old 05-21-2021 | 07:59 PM
  #544  
NuGuy's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,099
Likes: 86
Default

Originally Posted by JacksonThunder
Deltas 55 wind check!
Basic trig, actually. Not hard. But I'm sure you knew that.
Reply
Old 05-21-2021 | 08:57 PM
  #545  
Rodeo clown
 
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 703
Likes: 0
From: Tractor seat
Default

There is a $0.99 (yes, exorbitant by pilot standards) app in the App Store called 737 approach speed that has saved my bacon several times with late, changing wind calls. I like that it has pictures and that I can set the runway heading and then drag the wind line to wherever, set velocity and gust, and voila, that quartering tailwind with mild gust at LAX is out of limits for landing. YMMV
Reply
Old 05-21-2021 | 09:14 PM
  #546  
LumberJack's Avatar
Coverage Award...
Community Favorite
Loved
5 Years
20 Countries Visited
 
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,708
Likes: 127
Default

Originally Posted by BlueSkies
Well it's in the May 737 Fleet Newsletter for one, not sure where else to find it if you're not lucky enough to be on the 737.

Specifically they say "the amount of tw is now capped to preserve RATOW margin above RMWT/TOWT. The max tw displayed will be set to TW00 when the rwy hdwind component is 5 kts or greater."

The article continues with more information, but that seems the most relevant to our discussion. At first I was happy about going to the PLW because it seemed simpler, but flying today and checking our WDRs and seeing they all had TW00 on every line I'm concerned.

So I guess the idea is to have a larger weight buffer at the expense of having ANY tw protection? Aren't we just trading one problem for another? And a problem that requires you to:
1. Hear ATC say the winds when all you're listening for is "cleared for T/O" and
2. Do quick mental math and realize you now have as little as 1 kt of TW making the T/O numbers invalid

And as others have already mentioned the ATIS could be saying 5 kt hdwind all day long but all the matters is tower gave you a wind read-out with a tailwind.
The problem is the system only looks at the HW/TW component. For a hypothetical RWY36, winds 08015 are a 3kt headwind, so the WDR spits out TW02 (current wind component minus 5). We all know how easily that can swing to 10015 from tower, and now you have a 3kt tailwind and a canceled takeoff.

I like the new procedure because it's intuitive. I personally haven't run into the tailwind issue, but I'm sure the program will be tweaked if enough people have to cancel takeoff. I'm thinking if the current or forecast winds are close to 90°, than give us an automatic TW05.
Reply
Old 05-22-2021 | 02:25 AM
  #547  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by NuGuy
Basic trig, actually. Not hard. But I'm sure you knew that.
I’m terrible at trig
Reply
Old 05-22-2021 | 02:51 AM
  #548  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 5,816
Likes: 5
From: retired 767(dl)
Default

Originally Posted by Funk
There is a $0.99 (yes, exorbitant by pilot standards) app in the App Store called 737 approach speed that has saved my bacon several times with late, changing wind calls. I like that it has pictures and that I can set the runway heading and then drag the wind line to wherever, set velocity and gust, and voila, that quartering tailwind with mild gust at LAX is out of limits for landing. YMMV
In the olden days it was called an E6B. Fit right there in the pocket of your $6.99 E.J. Korvette's summer short sleeve.
Reply
Old 05-22-2021 | 03:38 AM
  #549  
Rodeo clown
 
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 703
Likes: 0
From: Tractor seat
Default

Originally Posted by badflaps
In the olden days it was called an E6B. Fit right there in the pocket of your $6.99 E.J. Korvette's summer short sleeve.
I’m old enough to own and be plenty familiar with an E6B, but just because I’ve also gone to the opposite side of the globe using paper charts and no FMS doesn’t mean I’m not open to easier methods of completing tasks in the cockpit. I don’t exactly find that dialing the E6B to remotely as easy, day or nighttime, as the one-handed use of the app as PM.
Reply
Old 05-22-2021 | 04:01 AM
  #550  
Banned
 
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 8,831
Likes: 499
Default

Originally Posted by JacksonThunder
I’m terrible at trig
5/7/9 rule

at 30degrees off rwy heading, hw=90% of total, xw=50%
at 45degrees off rwy heading, both are 70%
at 60degrees off rwy heading, hw=50%, xw=90%

that simple rule will get you within a knot of nearly every wind scenario you’ll come across.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
ayecarumba
Pilot Health
7
03-27-2013 03:45 PM
EdwardNorth
Career Questions
4
09-27-2011 01:58 AM
1morguy
Major
20
12-05-2007 10:20 AM
joel payne
Hangar Talk
4
04-27-2007 04:49 PM
Turbinebound
Regional
20
02-22-2007 03:08 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices