Bucking Bar

MMMX .... has any arrival ever happened as briefed? And that sucker can be briefed for hours.

Suggested briefing "you'll get vectors to inbound radials, these may be random. Someone have terrain up. Expect loss of nav systems and to be hit with a laser somewhere in the vicinity of the prison. RNAV/VNAV is your friend. Expect landing clearance at 300 feet. Missed - don't hit the mountain or the TS5 off the approach end. Probably best to hook a left before the ash plume, a right just by the EF5 then avoid the hail and you'll be fine.

Summary - Air Traffic Control is not so much "control" as it is a "service."

Nothing against the MMMX controllers. They're actually really good, working with a lot of accented traffic (including us) into a really sub-standard airport with terrain and volcanos.

OOfff

good news: the airspace redesign fixed a lot of that.

TED74

So…tower-assigned headings and altitudes needs to be briefed then? Does that portion help you any more than holding entry? I never said a realistic plan has to be complicated. The point is that you do a professional courtesy to your coworker to let them brief what they feel is worthwhile on their leg. Believe it or not, the brief can be just as much for the briefer as the briefee, and if that’s the habit pattern they have, (time it) the extra 15” ain’t gonna kill you…not to mention your 5” add-on doesn’t help much either (other than interrupting their personal flow). Assuming your technique was from your previous time as a newish 717 captain, you probably gave your demo first on the first leg, amiright? If after that they still do their way, let it be. You want to be an LCA - go for it. Just don’t practice on folks who may or may not care less about your techniques if they aren’t asking.

For what it’s worth - I brief the same as you. But I do me and let the PF be the PF unless safety is at risk. If somebody wants me to instruct without being asked, they’ll make that clear.

Margaritaville

You guys are such nerds. The Delta Forum never disappoints.

Trip7

I'm not sure exactly what your point is. Are you saying not to mention tower assigned heading and altitudes at all and just leave the Briefing at the published missed? Do you not brief what your fuel state is in the event of a go around?

FYI I didn't practice, I was a 717 LCP

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TED74

This is my shocked face, times two.

Denny Crane

Maybe if you are in the domestic arena this would work with no engine out procedure........in the international arena I would not trust getting instructions in adequate time. (I’m thinking taking off north out of ICN)

Denny

Schwanker

Not good advice. Ever had a missed at Heathrow? They expect you to fly the published, with a 2000ft hold down with climb to 3000 at 6 DME without delay. Glad we briefed it to include the hold down when the lost aircraft in front of us decided to stop on the runway.

Trip7

Did you go to the hold and do a full entry?

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Schwanker

Nope. Tracked the 147 heading as directed by the published missed approach. Your technique would have left us scrambling and set us up for a violation or potential traffic conflict.