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Old 06-01-2021 | 09:40 AM
  #1061  
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Originally Posted by Zerosilver84
So why are edv pilots doing delta flying but not employed by delta and considered delta pilots??
bottom line is guys well before caused this rj **** show we have now . Relaxing scope , looking out for themselves.
It’s more rjs in the sky on any given day than mainline ac and there is something seriously wrong with that
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Old 06-01-2021 | 09:46 AM
  #1062  
Really got furloughed
 
Joined: Aug 2015
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From: Gramercy Riffs
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Originally Posted by Planetrain
...move on from the strategy of sensationalism and victimization. As a group we did a lot better over time hitting singles and doubles (a lot and frequently) than holding out for the grand slam off the submarine pitch.
Word. The moneyball system works.
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Old 06-01-2021 | 09:48 AM
  #1063  
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From: A350 Both
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
We have a bunch of 330’s and 350’s coming. Sounds like a great deal for the company. Not so sure about the pilots.
As they are put into service, the RJs can be put into service. If one is taken down, 3 RJs go bye bye. And additional orders (not options) MUST be placed. There is leverage if the company wants those RJs that can be exploited. Of course I am spitballing, but you know as well as I that the company lawyers laugh at us being suckers for crap like a no furlough clause and nonsense like that for allowing the farming out of our work. For a change we should get something that provides jobs throughout the seniority list and has some teeth.

And for Pete's sake, STOP getting money for contract scope violations. Get real compensation. Rebalance the production, immediately.
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Old 06-01-2021 | 10:01 AM
  #1064  
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
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Originally Posted by PilotBases
Splitting the DAL contingent between two presidents in 2018 BoD and not being able to horse trade with the other MECs pretty much did it.
Agreed. To your point:

Strategy to win national elections:
(1) Maintain a database of reps & votes. Identify the swing voters (Regionals, smaller airlines and Canadians).
(2) Look among your new hires pilots to identify friends of swing voters & recruit them to attend the BOD in various capacities
(3) Hold those who attend accountable. Report conversations back to the "war room." No swing voter should ever drink or eat alone. Buy pizza for underfunded MECs. Talk about their issues. Find out what they need for their group. The regional pilots and minority groups (smaller # of pilots) take the BOD very seriously.
(4) Provide feedback to your candidate and if they are smart, they will craft their presentations to satisfy the swing votes. Your candidate needs to be up at 4:30 to 5am; meet voters before breakfast when they are fresh.
(5) Loop back around your contacts. Get vote commitments. Your adversaries are playing the same game. You will lose your votes if you do not maintain the relationship.
(6) Identify voters who did not keep their word using your database tools. Talk to them. Get your candidate to talk to them.

We did the opposite: We fired the people who had run successful campaigns, isolated and offended them to the point that they ran a candidate against our own candidate. Then we took a bunch of military bro's who stood around and talked to each other. The perception was that Delta had gone stupid and was no longer effective. The swing voters went to FedEx (which fielded a pretty weak candidate) Either of the Delta candidates would have been better. It was ours to lose and we took ourselves out.
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Old 06-01-2021 | 10:48 AM
  #1065  
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Joined: Mar 2015
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From: ir.delta.com
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Agreed. To your point:

Strategy to win national elections:
(1) Maintain a database of reps & votes. Identify the swing voters (Regionals, smaller airlines and Canadians).
(2) Look among your new hires pilots to identify friends of swing voters & recruit them to attend the BOD in various capacities
(3) Hold those who attend accountable. Report conversations back to the "war room." No swing voter should ever drink or eat alone. Buy pizza for underfunded MECs. Talk about their issues. Find out what they need for their group. The regional pilots and minority groups (smaller # of pilots) take the BOD very seriously.
(4) Provide feedback to your candidate and if they are smart, they will craft their presentations to satisfy the swing votes. Your candidate needs to be up at 4:30 to 5am; meet voters before breakfast when they are fresh.
(5) Loop back around your contacts. Get vote commitments. Your adversaries are playing the same game. You will lose your votes if you do not maintain the relationship.
(6) Identify voters who did not keep their word using your database tools. Talk to them. Get your candidate to talk to them.

We did the opposite: We fired the people who had run successful campaigns, isolated and offended them to the point that they ran a candidate against our own candidate. Then we took a bunch of military bro's who stood around and talked to each other. The perception was that Delta had gone stupid and was no longer effective. The swing voters went to FedEx (which fielded a pretty weak candidate) Either of the Delta candidates would have been better. It was ours to lose and we took ourselves out.
WE fielded a last minute second candidate, WE never had a chance once that happened. The we I'm referring to is the back stabbing candidate that went around the MEC. No unity and a betrayal from within. WE would have been better off taking any leadership position but WE weren't going to let US do that.
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Old 06-01-2021 | 01:57 PM
  #1066  
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Joined: Mar 2016
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Originally Posted by Farmlover
breeze owns the certificate so I doubt they would ever sell it
wrong, check your facts...

https://www.flightglobal.com/strateg...139810.article
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Old 06-01-2021 | 02:20 PM
  #1067  
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Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
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The Endeavor Flow agreement is out and it is moronic.
  • Delta pilots subject to discipline under the Endeavor PWA
  • Sets out bilateral and concomitant seniority across carriers but states that the agreement cannot be used in a single carrier proceeding
  • Is basically voluntary for management to comply with
  • Meet & Confer if management spins off Endeavor
  • Endeavor's new hires not covered
  • and this gem at the end "the parties agree that this Agreement in its entirety shall be rendered void and without force or effect if the Delta/ALPA System Board of Adjustment or a court of appropriate jurisdiction does not permit Delta to operate 223 76-seat aircraft under the Delta PWA"
This is bad for both sides. It pits all sides against one another. Of course the Endeavor MEC wants to ratify "free stuff" without understanding where this leads.

Why the **** will ALPA's leaders not coordinate through ALPA's President like you are supposed to under our association's Admin Manual?
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Old 06-01-2021 | 02:27 PM
  #1068  
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
The Endeavor Flow agreement is out and it is moronic.
  • Delta pilots subject to discipline under the Endeavor PWA
  • Sets out bilateral and concomitant seniority across carriers but states that the agreement cannot be used in a single carrier proceeding
  • Is basically voluntary for management to comply with
  • Meet & Confer if management spins off Endeavor
  • Endeavor's new hires not covered
  • and this gem at the end "the parties agree that this Agreement in its entirety shall be rendered void and without force or effect if the Delta/ALPA System Board of Adjustment or a court of appropriate jurisdiction does not permit Delta to operate 223 76-seat aircraft under the Delta PWA"
This is bad for both sides. It pits all sides against one another. Of course the Endeavor MEC wants to ratify "free stuff" without understanding where this leads.

Why the **** will ALPA's leaders not coordinate through ALPA's President like you are supposed to under our association's Admin Manual?
We aren't gonna agree to the rjs
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Old 06-01-2021 | 02:28 PM
  #1069  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,529
Likes: 197
From: UNA
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
The Endeavor Flow agreement is out and it is moronic.
  • Delta pilots subject to discipline under the Endeavor PWA
  • Sets out bilateral and concomitant seniority across carriers but states that the agreement cannot be used in a single carrier proceeding
  • Is basically voluntary for management to comply with
  • Meet & Confer if management spins off Endeavor
  • Endeavor's new hires not covered
  • and this gem at the end "the parties agree that this Agreement in its entirety shall be rendered void and without force or effect if the Delta/ALPA System Board of Adjustment or a court of appropriate jurisdiction does not permit Delta to operate 223 76-seat aircraft under the Delta PWA"
This is bad for both sides. It pits all sides against one another. Of course the Endeavor MEC wants to ratify "free stuff" without understanding where this leads.

Why the **** will ALPA's leaders not coordinate through ALPA's President like you are supposed to under our association's Admin Manual?
how are delta pilots subject to discipline under endeavor PWA?
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Old 06-01-2021 | 02:38 PM
  #1070  
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
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Originally Posted by Gone Flying
how are delta pilots subject to discipline under endeavor PWA?
Flown down = one of theirs to do with as they see fit.

The 9E guys made fun of this concern until I pointed out that at least a third of the flow downs would be their pilots who had flowed up. They agreed, better to be represented by the Delta MEC IAW with the Delta PWA if you are a Delta pilot.

My wife's PTA has stronger contract language for a spirit night at the snowcone place.
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