Not always. Kicked 40 revenue pax off a SEA-KOA flight in January due to winds. Next day they did a fuel stop in SFO. 757 would have handled it just fine.

As for sitting idle take a look at SEA 320 for February. Half the dang base is on reserve and block hours are more than doubling from Feb to March because Hawaii is coming back.

As a serial reserve bidder, no complaints here at all. But let’s not pretend the NEO can’t have issues in the winter, I’ve seen it first hand.

 

Correct, it will trigger Oceanic Crossing. Idiotic that it is already crossing an Ocean for 6 hours to Hawaii, which triggers Intl pay but not crossing pay.

 

I never had an issue with it once they solved the fuel planning issue. There were multiple cancellations and extended delays on the 757 this winter owing to having no base in SEA. So between that and burning 15-20% more gas on each leg I doubt they saved any money.

 

I don't understand how that's possible. There's got to be more to it because I've definitely flown BOS-SAN and landed with enough fuel to make it halfway back to BOS.

 

150 kts in the face BOS-SAN would get tight.

But then you gotta remember what ETOPS diverts are predicated on. Single engine speed/time and also a loss of pressurization 10k profile.

 

Nothing more to it that I could see. Winds were howling. Got called off reserve to fly Kona and when I arrived the gate agent was having a major freakout because he had to kick 40 revenue pax off a full flight. Get down to the jet and under dispatcher remarks it says something to the effect of “Must fly cost index zero due to max tanks.” Took every ounce of fuel the jet could take and still had a razor thin margin over min gas. Ending up blocking 7:11.

Not trying to start another 75 v NEO fight just pointing out that when someone says it handles SEA -Hawaii just fine in peak winds that isn’t true. The NEO is great and does Hawaii just fine most of the time even in winter, but sometimes the winds are crazy and it’s just a fact that the 757 has more range.

Also it wasn’t just me. It happened all week as the winds were bad. The next day they fuel stopped in SFO and they also started buying people off later in the week. I know because my FO was taking his family to Kona a few days later and they called him during our trip offering him money to connect through LAX instead.

Don’t take my word for it though, Delta has the data and their official word on why they sent it back to the 757 was winter winds. Considering half the 320 base is on reserve growing beards for two months, I doubt they did that on a whim.

This was post fuel planning issue, but I agree they probably didn’t save a dime. Closing the ER base and then immediately adding a ton of ER flying to said base is some 3D chess. Kind of like paying millions on cabin renewals only to turn around and sell the jets

 

Fly faster. In my experience, cost index zero burns more fuel to fly slower. I'd usually fly around at .79 and make fuel the whole way.

 

yeah CI 0 doesn’t really save any gas and the longer the flight is the more gas you’ll make at CI40-65. I’ve had to tech stop on the NEO and MAX. But out of hundreds of flights to the islands I’ve only had to do it 3 times in total. All three were due to hyper conservative fuel planning and new rails with no historic ship specific fuel burn data. Longest I’ve had going to KOA was 6:58. I’m more a LIH/OGG guy anyways.

 

have you flown the 75? Curious what ours have for range vs our degraded NEO’s. I would’ve expected them to have somewhat similar range/endurance. It’s ETOPS180 correct?

 

I have yes, but I don’t remember the exact range number. A current ER driver will probably know. I believe 180 ETOPS is correct.